BIONICLEsector01 talk:Articles for Deletion

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Approved proposals (please handle these pages!)

Rename "Dekar-Hydraxon" to "Hydraxon (Duplicate)" and "Hydraxon" to "Hydraxon (Original)"

Most articles covering subjects whose names changed during the story use the subject's new name. Examples include "Jaller," "Takanuva," and "Treespeak" (back when it was a full article). Renaming "Dekar-Hydraxon" to "Hydraxon" would match that convention. With this change, we could also remove the Nickname template from that article--"Dekar-Hydraxon" was a term made up for BS01.

Of course, then we'd have two "Hydraxon" articles, so we could turn "Hydraxon" into a disambiguation page and distinguish the character articles with the titles "Hydraxon (Duplicate)" and "Hydraxon (Original)." -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 17:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Votes for renaming "Dekar-Hydraxon" and "Hydraxon"

  1. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 17:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
  2. - Toa Jala Converse 21:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
  3. TuragaHordika (talk) 13:33, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Votes for renaming "Dekar-Hydraxon" to "Hydraxon (Dekar)"

  1. Same as the above suggestion, but Dekar rather than Duplicate. ~ Wolk (talk) 18:22, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
  2. --Surel (Talk) 18:25, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
  3. --maxim21 07:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
  4. This option sounds good as well. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 07:45, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
  5. I like this option as well, but I also agree with Dorek that Dekar and the Hydraxon duplicate should share a page. - Toa Jala Converse 22:27, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
  6. Honestly, i'm fine with either. TuragaHordika (talk) 18:10, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
  7. Dag (talk) 22:45, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Votes against renaming "Dekar-Hydraxon" and "Hydraxon"

  1. I agree with Dorek's reasoning below. --Angel Bob (talk) 20:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
  2. Dekar is his own character. It isn't as though he changed his name, he simply ceases to exist now. I think the page should just be called Dekar if anything. We should keep a fair but not extensive amount of info here about the "new" Hydraxon, as that is what happened to his body and it is standard, but the info about Hydraxon should be on the Hydraxon page. The Ignika brought Hydraxon back. At the very least, things should remain as-is, or Dekar-Hydraxon should be changed to Dekar. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 16:04, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Comments on renaming "Dekar-Hydraxon" and "Hydraxon"

I vague remember we having a very similar poll already. And we've made the changes, that was the time when we merged Dekar's and the Dekar-Hydraxo pages I believe, only to Dorek rename the page back to Dekar-Hydraxon. So I'll only vote if he's okay with the changes lol --Surel (Talk) 20:19, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Here's what I found.[1][2][3] Also, if the pages do end up being renamed, we should have a "Hydraxon" disambiguation page. Dag (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Ah, I knew we'd talked about the page name a while back but had forgotten we'd actually voted on it. My bad (and thanks for bringing up that info). Also, agreed about the disambig. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 04:54, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

I'll be honest, I'm still not sold on it, although it is the least obtrusive solution (aside from what it is now). Functionally, he's still Dekar, and it feels remiss to have his name just be a redirect. It's too unique to compare to Takua or Treespeak.

We could also just make it Dekar =P -- Dorek Talk 02:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Since the article is about two identities (rather than a single identity/concept with two names, as in the other examples), there's a good argument for mentioning both identities in the title. Personally, I still lean against "Dekar-Hydraxon" since it's a nickname while "Dekar" and "Hydraxon (Duplicate)" aren't. In that case, since the new Hydraxon doesn't remember his past, I think it'd make more sense to title the article with his new identity instead of his old one. None of my opinions are strong though, and I'm curious to hear others. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 04:54, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
I think we should create a separate page for Dekar. Once he becomes Hydraxon, he's no longer Dekar. Dekar essentially no longer exists (RIP). Like Morris said, they're two different identities, but I agree with Dorek as well: it's too unique to use Takua/Takanuva as a model, so we need to do something else in this case. When Takua became Takanuva, he was still the same individual, so it makes sense to give him only one page. Either way, I support the name changes being proposed here. - Toa Jala Converse 21:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, that's how it originally was, waaaaaay back in the day. I think the argument for fusing them (maybe I did that? idk it's been 15 years) was because he IS still Dekar; mind readers can access those parts of his brain, and literally any time he appears in the story people go "this guy's a phony!" so being Dekar is still central to the character and his arc. It's not like we would have had two pages for amnesiac Takua and regular Takua, or Metru Nui Nuhrii and Mata Nui Nuri, etc. etc. I think having two "Hydraxon" pages doesn't really capture the complexities of it, although at some point I get that it's just semantics. -- Dorek Talk 18:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I like Dorek's suggestion of just changing Dekar's page to "Dekar". I also think that Hydraxon should just have his info about his duplicate on his page, though I don't entirely oppose also keeping it on Dekar's too. The new Hydraxon is the original Hydraxon, just in a new body. After all, that is how the people revived by the Red Star are treated. He was transformed by the mask of life, has all his memories, the same behavior, the same knowledge, etc. Instead of being revived by the Red Star, he was just revived by the Ignika, and it used the body and possibly the life-force of Dekar to recreate his body and revive him. Also, if we make the content page for Dekar anything other than Dekar, it detracts from him and sets him apart from the other Matoran. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 00:28, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Uhm, no. The new Hydraxon introduced in 2007 is Dekar, transformed into Hydraxon by the Ignika. Teridax read Hydraxon's mind and realized he is/was Dekar. Pridak also deduced his pervious identity, even if the Ignika basically has overwritten is with a copy of Hydraxon's. The Dekar-Hydraxon is basically like a copy on a pendrive, the Red Star body for the original Hydraxon is lile a new SSD after the original got "damaged." We're not voting on Hydraxon after he got a new body on the Red Star after his death.--SurelNuva (Talk) 12:27, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Why not change "Dekar-Hydraxon" to "Dekar"? I mean, there is one Dekar.Lenny7092 (talk)

Merge Memory Crystal And Knowledge Crystal

A while back, I brought up on the Knowledge Crystal talkpage that there is much similarity between knowledge and memory crystals, to the point that they seem identical, and I believe it is a strong enough case to present it as such on the wiki. I'll summarize all the information here:

  • The 2004 style guide says Nuju's task was guarding knowledge and memory crystals. While it distinguishes the two, it also says that Ko-Metru is "dominated by enormously tall knowledge and memory crystals," implying that Knowledge Towers are made from both.
  • In a string of answers from Dec 2003 and Feb 2004, Greg says that knowledge and memory crystals both store information[1][2] and confirms that they both make up Knowledge Towers.[3] While he did say they were different and this difference would later be explained in the City of Legends guide,[4][5] memory crystals are not mentioned even once in the book and this difference is never explained anywhere.
  • The Rahi Beasts guide says that "Frost Beetles have been known to consume the crystals used to grow new Knowledge Towers," then says that "Matoro once proposed a theory that some of these creatures may have eaten memory crystals." While this has long been interpreted on BS01 to mean they mistake knowledge crystals for memory crystals, this actually implies what has already been confirmed, that memory crystals also make up Knowledge Towers.
  • The first encyclopedia only mentions knowledge crystals in the entry for Knowledge Towers, but does not have specific entries for either knowledge or memory crystals.
  • The updated encyclopedia includes an entry on memory crystals, but still not one for knowledge crystals.

To summarize, both knowledge and memory crystals make up Knowledge Towers and can store information. Although Greg said they are different and this distinction would be explained, this was never followed through on, and later material continued to suggest that they are the same. This leads me to believe that a later internal decision was made to consolidate them to a single object.

As to what the name of the merged page should be, Knowledge Crystal or Memory Crystal, I have no strong opinion either way. Dag (talk) 17:20, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Votes for merging Memory Crystal And Knowledge Crystal

  1. Dag (talk) 17:20, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
  2. CozyFrog (talk) 18:09, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
  3. --Surel (Talk) 19:30, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
  4. ~ Wolk (talk) 09:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
  5. I will vote for this as long as memory crystals are included as a section on the knowledge crystal page. TuragaHordika (talk) 18:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Votes against merging Memory Crystal And Knowledge Crystal

  1. The knowledge crystals are specific crystals that can seed knew knowledge towers, which it seems like distinguishes them from memory crystals. See more in the comments. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 15:15, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Comments on Memory Crystal and Knowledge Crystal

So, by merging the pages are we saying that they're the same thing, or are we simply saying one page should be predominant and both will be mentioned? I don't mind merging, but I think there's enough evidence to say that they're different objects, even if we can't necessarily delineate their specific characteristics... -- Dorek Talk 05:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

What's the difference, because aside from the wiki saying they are different, every aspect of them are the same. Both store data, both can be used to grow Knowledge towers, and that's the only 2 functions these two ever had.--Surel (Talk) 07:09, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
I agree with Dorek. Since everything we know about the two behave the same, but they are also distinguished objects from one another, I think we should mention both on the page, and note that they are separate objects, but as far as their known characteristics go, functionally identical. I'd probably go for Memory Crystal for the page name, since that's what got a BEU entry. ~ Wolk (talk) 09:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
The only sources that explicitly say they're two distinct objects is the style guide, which was never meant to be public, and Greg saying early on that the difference would be explained, but it never was, and unless Greg writes it in official media, he has the right to change his mind. But the thing I still don't understand is that Crystal Matrix was somehow aware of the Ko-Metru and Nuju bios from the style guide, or they were also in some other source. I had assumed it was from the, but apparently their bios weren't on the site till around April 2004. Dag (talk) 14:53, 16 February 2023 (UTC) The presskit used the same bios, and was given to BZPower in December 03. Where in the style guide id you find info the Metrus? NVM it's in the intro section... ~ Wolk (talk) 15:13, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
The discrepancy is in the wording of Rahi Beasts: "Matoro once proposed a theory that some of these creatures may have eaten memory crystals and somehow absorbed the knowledge inside them." This can be interpreted one of two ways: either Frost Beetles have been observed eating Memory Crystals and Matoro's theory is that they absorb their knowledge, or they have not been observed eating Memory Crystals and Matoro's theory is: a) that they do and b) that that causes their intelligence. My assumption reading it has always been the second, that the difference between the two is that Knowledge Crystals are something Frost Beetles definitely eat and may or may not make them smarter, whereas Memory Crystals are something Frost Beetles only possibly eat, and if so is what makes them smarter. Master Inika (Talk) 15:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

If knowledge and memory crystals are indeed two distinct objects, we can't say that Frost Beetles definitely eat knowledge crystals, only that they eat "the crystals used to grow new Knowledge Towers," and again, based on Greg and the style guide/presskit bios, memory crystals also can be used to grow Knowledge Towers. Dag (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

It seems pretty clear that, at one point, they WERE intended to be different, hence Greg's insistence that there would be some sort of clarification. Regardless of that clarification being abandoned/never forthcoming, I feel like the original intent, in this case, should apply, especially since both terms made it into publication, and we don't have anything, conversely, telling us that they are actually the same. It'll be annoying to write out no matter what ("these two things are different. how? nobody knows!") but I wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable declaring them to be the same item (I think the pages can still be merged though). -- Dorek Talk 03:46, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
^If they're not the same thing, how would you suggest the pages be merged? - Toa Jala Converse 05:10, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
The only reason I'm suggesting merging the pages is because I think the two objects should be considered one in the same. If they shouldn't be, then I'm against merging the pages. If the pages aren't merged, then they still need a serious overhaul to convey their similarities and the ambiguities of their differences, if there even are any, which would be a pain to do. It would be a lot easier for us to go with the simplest conclusion, that they are in fact the same. We would add a note or a trivia point explaining what I've explained here, that originally they were intended to be different, but because no difference was ever given and their only known functions are completely identical, we consider them the same with what little information we have as to not cause confusion. EDIT: Here's a sandbox I quickly threw together to better show what I mean. Dag (talk) 16:56, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm still on the fence, since it seems we have no way of definitively determining whether they are or aren't the same object (grr!). That's a good sandbox though. If they do get merged, don't forget to include the part about Matoran storing information at will via telepathy (as stated here). - Toa Jala Converse 07:28, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Continuing on from what I said in my vote, there is reason enough to believe that if both were used for storage information, the knowledge crystal and memory crystal would specifically store knowledge/wisdom and memories, respectively. I think they could have been partially merged/mixed in the process of the story, but the story never really says anything contradictory and never ascribes memory crystals as being the same thing as knowledge crystals. While interpreting Greg's wording as infallible in any details is not generally enough of a standard and would possibly not be sufficient in-and-of itself, the fact that he specified that they were BOTH a part of the knowledge towers in conjunction with any other proof that they are the same makes me lean strongly towards them not being the same, or at least having so little evidence to the fact that it would not be in line with our policies. I would, however, be open to the idea of having a heads-up section at the top of both pages that redirect to the either, noting their similarity. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 15:15, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Arsenal Pages

I was adding a trivia bullet to the Elemental Trident page recently and noticed that the page was rather short, as were the other pages about the Masters' weapons. A number of Toa also have weapon pages where the article is essentially a disjointed stub, and I was wondering if we should put things together more cleanly.

I often reference RangerWiki on Fandom since there's no independent alternative I know of yet, and one of the things that they do there is making an arsenal page, where a given team's equipment is all laid out on a page - common weapons, personal items, Zords, etc. put together in a single location to prevent stub articles and it just looks good.

There would have to be some minor alterations in order to cleanly translate how things work on this wiki as opposed to over there, but I think this is a much better solution than having more than eight stubs for the Masters alone - and with the other Toa teams, it only gets worse.

This page is an example, or perhaps a rough draft, of what I want to accomplish. - Waddlez 22:30, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Vote to Replace Weapon Stubs with Team Arsenal Pages

  1. - Waddlez 22:30, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
  2. TuragaHordika (talk) 22:52, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
  3. For character/group-specific tools within a certain group/organization, yes. I think this is a good idea. ~ Wolk (talk) 23:10, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
  4. I don't think the masks are necessary, but certainly a good idea, similarly to the Toa Hagah Spears page--SurelNuva (Talk) 17:25, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  5. --Gonel (talk) 21:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
  6. Dag (talk) 22:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Vote to Create Arsenal Pages and Keep Existing Weapon Pages

Vote to Keep As-Is

  1. IDK, we have plenty of stub tool pages already. I don't see the harm in keeping these. - Toa Jala Converse 18:15, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
  2. This isn't that unusual, and like with a lot of G1 pages, it always has room to grow. I see no reason to do this. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 00:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)


For adrenalin mode, it is at the very least mentioned in the set description of 70787 Tahu – Master of Fire. ~ Wolk (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that masks don't need to be mentioned on these pages. ~ Wolk (talk) 19:51, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't get how this is comparable to the Toa Hagah Spears. First off, these are all unique weapons with multiple functions, and we know pretty much the same about these as every G1 primary Toa's toa tool, if not more. I don't think this would get this kind of support if it were the Toa Nuva's original Toa Tools(the ones that came in the sets of the Nuva), and even the Toa Mata's tools get their own pages, despite not having names or pretty much anything to say. These are all different, do different things, and have different functions. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 15:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)