Capitalization of Bio, Kio, and Mio
I've noticed that throughout all of the pages, it varies whether or not Bio, Kio, and Mio are capitalized seems to change. I would guess that they should not be capitalized, though I don't know. Also, I don't know how to do case-sensitive searches, so it would be very difficult for me to fix all of the pages, but I can do it if there isn't an easier way. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 17:13, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hmm, I'll ask if there's a way to do case-sensitive searches. I would lean towards capitalizing them; I know it's been a point of debate on whether or not we should capitalize stuff that isn't treated like that in-story (e.g. Kraata) but honestly I just think it makes more sense for a reference site to be as readable as possible. -- Talk 00:51, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
Still breaking doors?
How are ya man? Long time no see! Grant-Sud
- My dude! How have things been? You on Slack or Discord or anything of the like? -- Talk 16:26, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Question Regarding the Meta Tag
For Meta pages, I've had a few questions.
Do we include cameos of a character from other Lego themes or media? For example, Tahu is spotted for about one second in The Lego Movie, while Guurahk is seen in the LEGO Club Show music video "Black Eye Piece" (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_7AEGzPnKk).
Lastly, should we also include media not even directly from Lego? For example, Tahu alongside the other Toa Mata appeared in a Green Lantern comic from within a yellow floating portal. -- TheRocketRacer (talk) 02:23, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, both are good! KZ has a sandbox that lists some appearances of LEGO in other media User:KZN02/Sandbox#BIONICLE in Popular Culture, so that's a pretty good place to reference as well. -- Talk 09:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Shadow is Easier?
You undid my edit on Shadow with the note, "I don't think "easier" is the right word". I'm a little confused - how is it not the right word if it's the word that Greg himself used to describe it? - Toa Jala Converse 01:29, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- He said it was "easy'" to use, not "easier" which implies a comparison. There could be a lot of factors that make Shadow easy to use, but it's not like it was ever stated that Light was hard to use, so I don't read it as making a comparison between the two. -- Talk 02:21, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- The quote in question is referring to Takanuva's Shadow powers from when he was half drained. If Shadow isn't easier to use than Light, Greg's answer doesn't really make sense. Why would you use Shadow more often if it was just as easy, or harder, as Light? Besides, Greg explicitly confirms Shadow is easier than Light in this CwGF quote, which Toa Jala added to the Light page. Dag (talk) 03:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Greg's answers pretty clearly refer to the morality of using it, not any larger metaphysical difference between the two elements, so it makes more sense for it to be a clarification of inner light. Saying one is "easier" than the other is reductive, and more implies that one is stronger or better in some way. It's fine the way it is now. -- Talk 04:54, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Elaborating on that: I think there's confusion since the statement "Shadow is easier to use than Light" could mean multiple things. It could mean that manipulating elemental Shadow requires less effort than manipulating elemental Light at the same proficiency level. That was true for Takanuva, but I don't think that was true in general. In general, Greg seems to have meant that inner Shadow is easy to tap into because it's tempting, not because it takes little effort to wield.
- If I understand correctly, in Takanuva's specific case, elemental Shadow actually *was* easier to wield than elemental Light. Since his inner Light didn't regenerate, eventually Takanuva's elemental Light powers would have grown much weaker than his elemental Shadow powers stronger. So for Takanuva, yes, Shadow was easier to use than Light. I don't think Greg meant that for all beings though.
- The second quote explains the situation in general. Greg compared the moral light/darkness situation to Star Wars. In Star Wars, the Dark Side is linked to temptation, and the Light Side is linked to avoiding temptation. Temptation is easy to give in to and hard to avoid, which is why "the Dark path is always the easier one to walk." So in general, inner Shadow would be easier to access than inner Light because Shadow is tempting. That temptation might even apply to Takanuva: As more and more of his inner Light was replaced with Shadow, Takanuva would be tempted to tap into his elemental Shadow more often. As a result, Shadow's traits would dominate his personality more--traits such as willingness to give in to temptation. So there was a feedback loop where temptation could cause Takanuva to further spiral into Shadow.
- That's my read of those quotes anyway. As for the trivia point, the Light article covers why inner Light powers are harder to access than inner Shadow powers. If people want, we can adapt that info for the Shadow page, or we can just leave it where it is. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 05:43, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- I found another relevant quote:
- "Which is true? If Takanuva uses his light power too much, he will only be able to control shadow. Or: If Takanuva uses his shadow power too much, he will only be able to shadow."
- "Using his shadow power too much will simply make using shadow more appealing, because it's easier to use. But it won't mean he loses his light powers. Using his light power too much would mean that, because the psychic shield caused by the shadow leech makes it impossible for him to regenerate light. So the more light he uses, the more shadow will predominate."
- This disproves your explanation that Shadow was only easier for Takanuva as he used up his Light. Also, you said "Greg seems to have meant that inner Shadow is easy to tap into because it's tempting, not because it takes little effort to wield," while Greg said here "using his shadow power too much will simply make using shadow more appealing, because it's easier to use." It's not easier because it's tempting, it's tempting because it's easier. Greg said "it's easier to use," stated as a noncontingent fact, just as it was in the first quote. That's just how Shadow is. Dag (talk) 16:36, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- I found another relevant quote:
I don't see how that contradicts what Morris said; ignoring light, it's that using Shadow exacerbates the negative traits. We literally see that in the books, Takanuva saying "choke on it".
But as Toa Jala mentioned, Takanuva is a unique test-case that's hard to apply to other scenarios. Roodaka, for instance, was said by Greg to have acquired her shadow powers though "extensive training"; sure, maybe Roodaka just sucked at it, but that would be a fairly liberal reading of the text. Just saying one is "easier" doesn't really contextualize anything. -- Talk 18:32, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
I still don't understand your reasoning for removing the information concerning Turaga Kaita. You said it's a hypothetical, which I know is an old BS01 tradition to not pay much attention to hypotheticals, but that is no longer the case (for example, Other Kanohi). You also said that "the citations don't back up the statement," but I don't know what you meant by this. Which statement? How did the citations not back it up? Dag (talk) 02:17, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- Bad move pointing me towards other hypotheticals!
- Part of my issue is with the terminology; the term "Turaga Kaita" is technically a fanmade one since it's just stringing together two pre-existing words that were never otherwise connected. I could say something is a "Ta-Kanohi" but that doesn't make it the right term. I had a similar issue with "Kra-Matoran" which is why the page isn't named that (and don't get me started on Solis Magna lol). The other part is that it's just not part of the story; obviously the Turaga Nui isn't either, but it's at least referenced (we should probably cite whatever obscure book or website archive it was actually first mentioned in too, come to think of it...), and there's the visual model to boot.
- As for the citation, the last one about the increased strength, Greg just says "probably" (and it doesn't even reference the Nui). I know sometimes in the absence of truly definitive statements we tend to consider that as "good enough", but especially because it was purely about something that's basically a hypothetical, it's all circular logic. We know that a "Turaga Kaita" can exist (and I guess that it doesn't have increased elemental powers) but that's basically it. -- Talk 02:38, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- Actually, I just realized that apparently the Japanese Kabaya Turaga combiners were explicitly called Turaga Kaita, and this was sufficient to refer to them as such on their pages. While I can see this not being enough to say it's actually canonical, it's definitely not a fanmade term. Dag (talk) 19:59, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- I suppose that does lend it some credence, although something tells me the story team didn't necessarily have a hand in naming those. Plus, those are 4, not 3... did we ever land somewhere explicitly on what constitutes a Kaita? I seem to recall some debate about that. -- Talk 20:23, 20 January 2023 (UTC)