Talk:Kraata Powers

From BIONICLEsector01

A long time ago, I made a visual chart of all the Kraata powers. (here) Even though it's fanmade, since the actual list can be cumbersome to use when trying to find a specific combination, would it be appropriate to have a link to my chart on the page? Master Inika (Talk) 00:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Absolutely! Put it in the external links for now, and if other staff are cool with it, you can upload it here directly instead. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 23:00, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Just in External Links, I think, is best. -- Dorek Talk External Image 20:24, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Melding Universe "Telekinesis"

In Brothers In Arms, Chapter 9, Melding Universe Gorast "telekinetically" lifted Vultraz up then slammed him into ground. While Greg confirmed in one quote that Melding Makuta have Telekinesis as a Kraata power,[1] an FF entry states that it was really her Gravity powers.[2] I'm not saying that this definitively means it was Gravity and not Telekinesis, but it is enough to cast doubt, so for the time being, Telekinesis should be left off. I have updated both this page and the Makuta page accordingly. Dag (talk) 20:21, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Then why not leave it the way it was until we have a definitive answer? Let the staff decide. -- Toa Jala Converse 21:22, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
Dag, good catch. This seems like good material for a trivia point for now (and eventually for a behind the scenes section, along with some of the info currently in the lead section). I'll write it up, and then if anyone wants to adjust it, feel free.
Also, it's reasonable to remove the disputed info in this case. In general, it's better for the wiki to be missing some correct information than for it to include incorrect information. I've thought about creating a "disputed info" template for cases like this. Basically instead of removing info and discussing it, it would give editors the option to mark the info and link to the discussion instead. I don't think we should require editors to use it, but it would be an alternative system for those who want it. I'll make it later. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 21:38, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Renaming the page

So, did we want to move this to Kraata Powers instead (Or Makuta/Rahkshi Powers, not sure what to go with there...)? ~ Wolk (talk) 01:47, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

The page should definitely be renamed to focus more on the powers, but to what exactly is difficult. The page discuss all three, Makuta, Rahkshi, and Kraata. Perhaps we should go with Makuta, since Kraata and Rahkshi are simply a creation of Makuta? Any option seems reasonable to me. Dag (talk) 01:52, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
Kraata Powers might be best, due to the page's focus on Kraata in specific... The other two I definitely think should exist as redirects, whatever way we go in. ~ Wolk (talk) 02:43, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
The previous format of the page focused on the Kraata themselves while the new format is very much about the powers they possess. I suppose naming it "Kraata Powers" would be appropriate. I'd hesitate to support "Makuta Powers" as a new title because the Makuta possess additional powers to the 42 Kraata powers, so that name may be misleading.
On that subject, I'd like to point out that prior to the change, this page included information about the stages of Kraata and their corresponding traits (such as their intelligence and ability to withstand sunlight). This information can still be found here. I'm adding a "See Also" section on this page to that effect. -- Toa Jala Converse 07:00, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Associated Kanohi

I don't think the Mahiki belongs under Illusion. I know it's called the Mask of Illusion, but its power has nothing to do with the psionic sub-power of illusion. If anything, it's closer in nature to shapeshifting than psionic illusion. -- Toa Jala Converse 00:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

I put them there not as a "Hey, this mask does the same thing," but as "There's another notable Illusion power which you can read about here." Yes, they are different, none of the masks can really be seen as 1:1 - for instance, Accuracy is also different, since it deals with melee where as the Sanok deals with projectiles. ~ Wolk (talk) 04:49, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Some of the masks at least are the exact same, like Silence and Rahi Control. However, in the case of the Mahiki, it was confirmed that Makuta illusions are fundamentally different from that of the Mahiki, being mental and not physical. I would be perfectly fine removing the Mahiki from under Illusion for that. Dag (talk) 05:02, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
The reason I disagree with removing it is that this allows the reader to look on the Mahiki page and find that they are in fact different. ~ Wolk (talk) 11:20, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
I guess I misunderstood the intention then. My bad. -- Toa Jala Converse 22:12, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
In all honesty, it might be better to have it incorporated into the text. ~ Wolk (talk) 15:20, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Makuta Feats of Power

Should advance examples used by the Makuta be added to specific powers like Teridax teleporting eye beams and Spirah’s weather control manipulating the waves of the sea in Federation of Fear? Also to prevent a unneeded discussion about weather control it was written as the wind and waves not the waves being manipulated by the wind. User:Makuta of Mata Nui

Donno about the weather control thing. Examples, following the style we have on other pages, could probably work where applicable and give us a view of which ones have been used. Also applicable to the Rahkshi encountered by the Nuva and Metru. ~ Wolk (talk) 10:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Sonic Rahkshi

I found a answer from Greg that clarifies the capabilities of sonic Rahkshi better explaining their abilities. I think this should be added under their power section.

Here is the link https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page58#post2311

Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 07:26, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Good find. That's definitely worth mentioning. Don't be afraid to make edits to pages if you have information that you think would benefit them. :) -- Toa Jala Converse 18:59, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
I'm still curious as to what he means by "creature made of sound"... Sonic Entity seems like it unless it's a typo, I suppose. Still weird. ~ Wolk (talk) 20:05, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, we always assumed the ability to create Sonic Entities was unique to the Hordika Lohrak. If Rahkshi of Sonics can do it as well, that could change our understanding of Sonics as an element. I'll see if I can find another source to confirm it. -- Toa Jala Converse 19:08, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Rahi Control Error

It seems Rahi control can affect organic creatures.

Here is the link, it is number 18 https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page198#post7885

It does not contradict anything since the quote saying they can not was referring to the mask of Rahi control which even if it functions like the kraata power it could be weaker like the kanohi Sanok and the kraata accuracy power they are both the power of accuracy but the kraata power can work without projectiles. And since it said any of the armies this includes Kalmah’s, Takadox’s, Ehlek’s, and Mantax’s armies which were composed of fully organic creatures that are not Rahi.

Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 00:39, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Accuracy Power Question

The new source of information for the accuracy power says physical objects and weapons not specifically thrown objects and ranged or projectiles weapons. So it is possible that it could be used with melee weapons for example using accuracy with a sword to find where to break a enemies’ shield or where to use a blunt object like a park bench in order to destroy a support pillar.

Here is the quote I am talking about. http://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2008-2010/page245#post9774-line5,10,14,17

Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 22:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

It's hard to tell from that one exchange. Some quotes seem to imply that it would be used for melee purposes, while others say it's limited to projectiles, like the Sanok. This page has been fluctuating back and forth for a while. I'd like to answer this question definitively. -- Toa Jala Converse 22:54, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

So do I, but I believe it is not limited to ranged combat for the simple reason that there are kraata that are able to use this power even though they do not have the body parts needed to throw or shoot things since they are just a head and tail. After all, all kraata can use their powers without a problem if they have the opportunity which in this case would be a target they wish to hit.

Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 23:09, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

The quote does limit it to projectiles because of the very next sentences.

"If I shoot a laser at you, I can use my accuracy power to hit you, because I am aiming it. If I am a Toa of Ice and wearing a Mask of Accuracy, I can make the ice bolt I hurl have a better chance of hitting you."

I finally added the quote after having sat on it for a while, ultimately because Greg implies the Sanok and Kraata power operate identically. While the Kraata description does suggest it works for melee (how can a Kraata even throw something?), Greg quotes take priority over the Kraata descriptions because Greg did not write them. I'm not aware of any quote where Greg suggested it works for melee (I double checked by searching "accuracy" on the TGA). Also, although it was not given in that quote, the reason Accuracy is not applicable to Fragmentation or Disintegration (which could be considered projectiles) is because Makuta can only use one Kraata power at a time. Dag (talk) 00:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

True however regardless of kraata stages or quotes from Greg it is universally agreed that kraata are slug like in body structure so unless he made a quote saying they need to use their tails or mouths to throw something this power should be compatible with melee combat. And even if it is like the Kanohi power, a kraata power does not always match up with a Kanohi even if they have the same name and ability, and usually the kraata power is capable of doing greater feats like the mask of Rahi control can control a few Rahi while a Makuta’s Rahi control has been shown to have controlled literal armies.

Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 00:41, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Unless the Kraata pounces or otherwise "launches" itself onto a target, in which case the Kraata itself is the projectile. That could resolve the "weak spot" issue, if the Kraata is able to launch itself with near-perfect accuracy. In any case, I have to agree with Dag. If there's no Greg quote stating that the Accuracy power works for melee, we have to assume that it doesn't. -- Toa Jala Converse 04:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Weather Control Range

I believe weather control might not be limited to a small area after all. Here is a section from Shadows In The Sky chapter 8 that shows it is not as limited as a small area.

“At this point, those two Makuta split off from the rest. Antroz, Chirox, and Vamprah, along with their shadow Matoran, kept on straight for the village. Their job was to use powers that would affect a wide area to keep the Toa Nuva and Matoran penned in their shelter. As Antroz summoned a violent storm, Vamprah and Chirox blanketed the village with alternating sonic attacks and destructive cyclones. Within a few minutes, virtually no buildings were left standing. Even the lightvine barriers were shredded by the assault, leaving nothing to bar the way of the Makuta.”

It specifically says a wide area plus I have other reasons to believe it is not limited to a small area. The weather control Rahkshi possibly did not have its staff so it’s power was more limited though I have trouble remembering if it was taken away or not. Teridax has shown manipulating the weather in a large radius on Mata Nui though this could be due to him knowing how to manipulate the island. Last of all the fact that Antroz did this it could be that the small area concept applies to the rahkshi and kraata only and a Makuta has better control of his powers than even the strongest kraata, so it is not strange if a Makuta can cover a much wider area then a rahkshi could. Also the information about the small area from both sources came long before Shadows In The Sky so it may not be one hundred percent accurate anymore. Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 01:53, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Good find, however I am skeptical. One, Weather Control is not mentioned by name, so its not entirely certain that the power being used is Weather Control (could also be Cyclone or Vacuum to control Air), although it very well could be. Even if it is Weather Control, dealing with contradictions between books is much more difficult than with Greg's online answers. The tiers of canon for the books are books written by Greg, movie novelizations, then the Hapka books, in that order. In this case, BA3 and BL8 are on the same tier. We could certainly make a note of this on the page, but I don't think we can definitively say its one way or the other. Dag (talk) 02:25, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

It specifically says summoned a violent storm if it just said storm winds then it might be vacuum or cyclone but since it said storm and it did not specify wind only it is likely this was the weather control power. Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 03:52, 26 November 2021 (UTC)