Talk:Shadow Matoran

From BIONICLEsector01

Regarding the last two edits to this page, I think Kra actually should be mentioned on this page. The reason is that they would be called Kra-Matoran except for the fact that they don't view themselves as a collected tribe. So, say, someone from Bota Magna who never heard of them, but knew the shadow prefix was Kra, would assume they were called Kra-Matoran. Technically, they ARE Kra-Matoran, just as Fire Matoran are Ta-Matoran; they just don't use the name. Just like Teridax is still Teridax even though he's called Makuta. (Not the best example, since he is called Teridax in later media, but I hope you get my point)--Willess12 (talk) 03:30, 23 September 2014 (CEST)

If you can show that Greg Farshtey or any form of canon Bionicle media referred to Shadow Matoran with the "Kra" prefix, I'd say go for it. `Cykron
Cykron has it right here. Unless Greg or some canon source says it is official, it doesn't belong here at this point. Toa Nidhiki05 03:40, 23 September 2014 (CEST)

My point was not that they were called Kra-Matoran; my point was that, since the Matoran prefix for Shadow is Kra, they are Kra-Matoran, even though they never use the name.

I'm not saying we should have the page call them Kra-Matoran. Just mention that the prefix should be mentioned. (Maybe something like "Though the prefix for Shadow is Kra, Shadow Matoran do not use it in their name, because..." It may seem like it has nothing to do with the page itself, but technically, following the naming standard for all other Matoran types, they are Kra-Matoran, whether they choose to use the name or not.

All that said, some might say that, by that logic, Toa of Fire are actually Ta-Toa(Fire-Toa), even if the term is never used. It's almost a matter of semantics. The fact is that the term "Kra-Matoran" is never used, nor is it ever said, that we know of. If that's BS01's standard protocol, then I guess the page is fine by BS01 standards. I'm not gonna say BS01's standard is wrong; I just question its applicability here.--Willess12 (talk) 04:13, 23 September 2014 (CEST) Edit: this might be a good thing to debate on the poll system Dorek seems to want.

It's just my personal opinion, but it sounds like we should leave the page as it is for now. If the name hasn't really been used we really don't need to explain what they should be really called. If used in the future by a prominent source, it would be fine to call them Kra-Matoran on the page, but there's no reason to at the moment. And yes, possibly voting on stuff like this would be interesting. `Cykron

If I may interject: the page already makes mention of them not using a prefix in the trivia section. Perhaps all we need to do is edit the wording to something along the lines of "do not use the elemental prefix for shadow, Kra-, in their name." The information is there, perhaps all we need to do is clarify it =) ζoxHistories External Image

Exactly what I was saying, pretty much, except it took me 100 words to say it, and it took you 8.--Willess12 (talk) 17:38, 23 September 2014 (CEST)

The problem I had with it (aside from the fact that it's stupid, which it is) is that the "do not have an elemental prefix for their tribe" and "Kra-" were a result of different answers with no real interplay between them. One was "why don't the Shadow Matoran have an elemental prefix" and the other one was "what is the elemental prefix for shadow IS IT KRA HUH HUH IS IT" (and the answer was "sure maybe I guess?") which was later the subject of debate, and to the best of my knowledge not officialized (since I recall removing it at one point). -- I AM THE DOREK do not truffle with me 20:06, 23 September 2014 (CEST)

Alrighty guys Dorek says it's stupid you can all go home. :P `Cykron
(Didn't see there was a discussion ongoing when I added it back with a reference, sorry for that)
Anyway, Kra- has been officialized. The exact quote is from Erebus, you can find it in the Greg Dialogue file from fishers64 archive. The exact date is Mar 13 2010, 07:58 AM (just quicksearch that if somebody want to check).
1. Is Kra the official prefix for Shadow?
1) I am okay with kra being the prefix, yes
Plus, the prefix is already on the Shadow page. maxim21 20:25, 23 September 2014 (CEST)

Reversed mutations

Greg's said here and here that Mata Nui reversed the Shadow Matoran's mutations when he did his big healing spell in Journey's End. I don't think he's commented on this matter before, so this doesn't contradict anything. Should we accept this information and make the relevant edits? --Angel Bob (talk) 03:52, 11 August 2015 (CEST)

Awesome! I felt so bad for those poor mutant Matoran. :( I'll make those changes now. -- External Image Speak to Me 07:47, 4 February 2016 (CET)

Split Appearance Infoboxes

I notice that Vultraz and Vican have infoboxes with tabs reflecting their Shadow Matoran and Pre-Shadow Matoran forms; anyone else think that doing so with the Av-Matoran who were Shadow Matoran might also be prudent?--Wiriamu (talk) 08:49, 2 February 2016 (CET)

I believe so. If what was mentioned in the above section is accurate, then we currently don't know what Gavla, Kirop, and Radiak look like. We'll leave Vican's and Vulraz's pages. Vican wanted to keep his mutations, so he wasn't affected, and Vultraz is in another dimension, so they should both look the same as they did in Karda Nui (although Vican's armor is probably a little bit lighter in color now). I'd be happy to do this, but I'm curious to see what the staff think of this. -- External Image Speak to Me 07:47, 4 February 2016 (CET)

Takanuva

If the Shadow Leech does nothing with the character physical appearance, why had Takanuva's and the Shadow Takanuva's Avohkii changed? Greg said every mutation of the Matoran were Mutran's job, why did the Avohkii changed? It is the Kanohi's special ability, like the Av-Matoran enlargement? — SurelNuva (Talk) 20:10, 2 May 2017 (CET)

I honestly don't have any idea. IIRC, that answer actually contradicts an earlier answer, where Greg said the Shadow Takanuva would look "basically the same" as our Takanuva - so maybe we should delete it. --Angel Bob (talk) 20:27, 2 May 2017 (CET)
Maybe it was the Avohkii's special change to the effect. Remember, Macku could not recognize Takanuva, and I bet it wasn't just because of his color change. — SurelNuva (Talk) 20:55, 2 May 2017 (CET)
At some point Greg confirmed that 08 Takanuva's Avohkii looked different because it reacted adversely to Takanuva's shadow, almost like an allergic reaction. Takanuva's a Toa of Light, so was able to change his armor color to reflect his shadow powers. Finally, he grew huge in Karda Nui because of all the Light energy there, just like how the Av-Matoran grew taller in Karda Nui. I don't think any of the changes were caused by Shadow Leeches. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 21:38, 2 May 2017 (CET)
I knew about his size. The reason of his color change was described in the BL10, it is connected the loss of his light because of the Shadow Leech. The only thing I didn't know was the Avohkii's change. And thanks for the answer, so we can say, that this was mask's special ability? — SurelNuva (Talk) 08:19, 3 May 2017 (CET)

I wouldn't call it a special ability because it's doesn't give any kind of advantage. It's better described as a feature of the mask I'd say. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 17:44, 3 May 2017 (CET)

Claw blades

Can we assume that Kirop's, Gavla's, and Radiak's Power Swords were/are identical to their claw blades? Since Mutran just fused their original blades to their hands. (and gave an exra pair of bladed legs to Radiak as well)SurelNuva (Talk) 23:18, 11 July 2017 (CET)

I don't think we can for sure assume that. He could have outfitted them with different blades, after all. --Angel Bob (talk) 23:58, 11 July 2017 (CET)