Talk:Tobduk

It looks like that Tobduk has two daggers.

Hi. I know that the picture is Tobduk's look created by a fan, but I noticed two contradicting things. In the story serials, he is said to have "a" dagger, but the picture shows him having two, as one is sheathed on his right side while he is carrying one with his left hand. Would you say that he canonically has two daggers?

Lenny7092 (talk) 23:23, 29 September 2023 (UTC)Lenny7092

In my opinion, he probably has multiple ones, but in the story he used a single one specifically.--SurelNuva (Talk) 13:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Anger Absorption

Are we sure Tobduk's "anger absorption" is an actual power? Though there are a couple Greg quotes that seem to confirm it is (although it's always assumed in the question), and even that it's a trait common to his species and that they can absorb a variety of emotions, the text of Brothers in Arms seems ambiguous to me. It could be a power, but it could also just be hyperbolic language to refer to something akin to an adrenaline boost, and there's evidence that supports the latter:

"Does Axonn have a variation (near invincible when angry) of Tobduk's anger strength?"

"See his last fight with Brutaka in the novels"[1]

What Greg is referring to is this part form BL5:

"Axonn had been so consumed by a towering rage that nothing would bring him down."[2]

Which Greg confirmed elsewhere was just an adrenaline rush.

"The fight between Axonn and Brutaka, even without the Antidermis it was a pretty even match, but on a moment, Axonn lost it, the friend he once known, is gone. And then he became outraged, knocking Brutaka down in one blast. Can Brutaka also turn his anger into power?"

"I wouldn't really call it turning anger into power. I would call it the same kind of thing that can happen in humans in a time of crisis, the result (in us) of an adrenalin rush."[3]

If that's the case for Axonn, I think we have to say the same for Tobduk. Dag (talk) 00:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

a) Axonn's thing is more of a berserk mode. He is not feeding off of *OTHERS* anger like Tobduk. b) I don't see anything conflicting with the rest of Tobduk's species being able to feed off emotions? ~ Wolk (talk) 22:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Brothers In Arms: "Although one would expect someone like him to be cold and calm, Tobduk was in a perpetual rage – he fed on anger, his and others, it made him stronger." ~ Wolk (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

This is also similar to how Kurahk is described, though Kurahk doesn't feed off of others: "His movements and actions are frenzied, as if by working himself into a rage his power will become more effective." (Promo CD), "The angrier Kurahk becomes, the more his sheer power increases." (C13), "The angrier Kurahk becomes, the greater his power" (Collector's Sticker Book). ~ Wolk (talk) 23:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Axonn's is a berserker mode, as Greg confirmed in the third quote I cited. But, in the first quote, Greg confirms that ability is akin to Tobduk's, so can't the same be said of Tobduk, then? I still think the text of BiA is inherently ambiguous on this issue, but the only argument for it being a power is that it says he can feed on the anger of others. It's easy for anger from both sides in a fight to become a negative feedback, so it could be that the anger of others feds Tobduk's anger, which then feeds his berserker rage. It could also be hyperbolic as I mentioned before, like BL5 saying "nothing would bring [Axonn] down" (he doesn't literally become invincible). I'm not saying it's definitively one way or the other, just that it's unclear. You do make a decent point though about it's similarities to Kurahk's description, but I think that is still different since 1) Kurahk is literally the Rahkshi of Anger and 2) it specifically states his power increases, whereas BiA only says Tobduk becomes stronger, referring only to physical strength. Also, if this anger strength is not a power, then there's no real basis to say he or his species are capable of feeding off other emotions. If it is just some kind of berserker mode, then that only applies to anger. Dag (talk) 23:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the chapter it's mentioned too often for it to be metaphorical. In particular: "Despite the Matoran’s best efforts, frustration and anger would grow in him during the fight, making Tobduk even stronger." and "He forced himself to stay calm and collected, so he could deny Tobduk any extra strength." It doesn't say anything about how the anger is affecting Mazeka's ability to fight (in the latter quote, they're not even IN a fight at that point), it's literally Tobduk feeding off the growing rage. -- Dorek _Talk 07:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the first quote, I do not read that as Greg confirming anything, he just tells whoever asked the question to refer to the book, thereby avoiding the question entirely, or at best saying Axonn does something similar. Ultimately, my argument is not about whether it is a power or an ability, but that it does not function like Axonn. If it is an ability, that still doesn't make it something that is not transferable to other members of his species (while going against a source, at that), that's like saying the rest of Nivawk's species can't fly because it's not a power. ~ Wolk (talk) 08:58, 23 November 2024 (UTC)