Talk:Kotu

According to Leah (Lego employee), Kotu is not in MNOLG. Source: https://www.maskofdestiny.com/news/one-who-sees I don't know how involved Leah was with MNOLG or Bionicle or if she may have been mistaken, but this is the only definitive yes or no answer we have ever gotten from an official source. Perhaps someone who worked on MNOLG would still have access to development notes or game files that could tell us for sure. -Turaga of Force

“In the Dark Time, even before the Swarms came, the Makuta infected the Rahi-beasts, and poisoned the waters around Ga-Koro. Kotu remembers this time well, for it was she that tamed the Tarakava. She knows of Poison, and may speak of it.”

From the original game files of MNOLG2, it sounds like a pretty clead cut that it was Kotu.--SurelNuva (Talk) 07:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Aye. The Matoran pictured in the article is Nixie, so ofc that not be Kotu. MNOG's structure doesn't name characters, they're just sprites in a scene, and wouldn't become entities until MNOG II. At the time of MNOG, Kotu ended up cut from both chapters 3 and 9 for tile,but got a mention in chapter 8. Her being the Tarakava caretaker seems more a retcon introduced by MNOG II (through Nokama's dialogue that Surel quoted above). ~ Wolk (talk) 09:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh yeah that MNOG2 quote does give a much stronger implication that was Kotu, I didn't recall that strong of evidence existing. Thanks for posting that quote. And yeah of course the one using the telescope isn't Kotu but the MOD article mentions the Tarakava carer too and says Kotu isn't in the game at all but maybe Leah was just mistaken. -ToF

In MNOG, the matoran that's tending to the tarakava that attacked the village is wearing a pakari, but kotu is listed as that matoran, and as always wearing a rau. am i missing something? Intelligence4 (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2017 (CET)

Also, that appearances section looks a little short. did she really only show up in the online games and animations? Intelligence4 (talk) 17:00, 17 April 2017 (CET)

The online games and animations were one of the primary vehicles of the story from 2001 to 2003. However, Greg never played or watched them, so he rarely referenced them unless he was trying to appeal to fans' nostalgia (with mixed results). So it's not surprising that someone could show up in "only" the games and animations.

I have no idea about her role in MNOG, though. I haven't actually played it. --Angel Bob (talk) 17:16, 17 April 2017 (CET)

Yes, she really did just appear in the games and animations; after 2003, it seems like everyone just completely forgot she existed, despite even getting a promotional CGI image and bio on Bionicle.com. As for where it was stated that she was that Matoran tending to the Tarakava, I don't know off the top of my head. The discrepancy regarding the mask is easily explained, though - since the game was still in its earliest stages of development when Ga-Koro was made, almost all of the Ga-Matoran populating it had either a stock Pakari or a stock Kakama. The Aimless Wanderer1 (talk) 17:34, 17 April 2017 (CET)

bob, have you really never played mnog?? Intelligence4 (talk) 17:57, 17 April 2017 (CET)

I guess that since she was charged with tending to the Rahi freed from the Infected Kanohi somebody assumed that it was her and probably didn't notice the different masks. To be sure, someone should check the OGD files and see if it was ever actually confirmed. ~OnionShark 18:05, 17 April 2017 (CET)

Well, bear in mind that most of the really early Ga- and Ta-Matoran models were just recolored clones used as placeholders, and have since been superseded in canon by the Matoran we saw in MNOG 2. Since the Rahi Tender in question is one of said clones (specifically, of Nixie), it may very well be Kotu - and since there are no other known Rahi tenders in Ga-Koro - probably is. With that said, it would behoove us to check archived versions of Bionicle.com circa 2003 or earlier. I doubt anyone's asked Greg about Kotu (and if so, I doubt he even knows who she is), but that's worth a look too. The Aimless Wanderer1 (talk) 18:29, 17 April 2017 (CET)

Ok, I tried to search Wayback Machine for Bionicle.com's bio for Kotu, but unfortunately those pages seem to be inaccessible for some reason. However, I did find this ancient BZpower page that details then-new updates to bionicle.com circa 2003: http://www.bzpower.com/story.php?ID=929

While it might not be official confirmation on its own, this still reveals much: Not only is the idea of Kotu being that stock Matoran not exclusively a Greg Fact, but it has existed for far longer than we originally thought. All things considered, this might be canon. -The Aimless Wanderer1 (talk) 15:43, 19 April 2017 (CET)

Here is a working link to Wayback Machine's archive of Kotu's bio. In case anything happens to it, I've also copy/pasted it below:

"Kotu has a sharp mind and a quick, witty sense of humor. Her skills at practical jokes are unequaled in Ga-Koro, where almost everyone has fallen victim to one of her pranks. She helps her best friend Maku play jokes on Huki and is a skilled Koli player. Kotu has the important job of tending to Rahi that have been freed from Makuta’s control."

All it says is that her job is tending to Rahi freed from Makuta's control. It does not specifically say that she is the only Ga-Matoran with this job, nor does it say that she was the specific Matoran tending to the Tarakava in MNOLG. Unless there is an additional source that we're missing, I'm inclined to believe that Kelly was extrapolating when he wrote that news article. It's a logical deduction of course (one that I'm sure fits many fans' headcanons, my own included), and it may have been confirmed/canonized at a later time... but, given how strict BS01 is about speculation, I don't think this one BZP news article is enough to say that it was Kotu. --PeabodySam (talk) 00:45, 20 April 2017 (CET)

I'll just add that, considering both Kapura from the chapter prior to Ga-Koro and Hafu from the chapter after it BOTH incorrectly wear Pakaris, its actually very possible that the same could have happened with Kotu. Add to that the fact that Hafu isn't actually named until late in the game when you get him to join your party, and the fact that Maku is your Ga-Koro party member instead of Kotu, and it seems entirely possible that the Rahi keeper Tohunga was supposed to be Kotu all along, and circumstance just never led to her being explicitly identified. Tazakk (talk) 20:17, 20 April 2017 (CET)

I think we can safely assume that was indeed Kotu taking care of that tarakava that Gali defeated - as mentioned, there were several matoran who were simply depicted as clones in the game, despite wearing different masks in actual canon. one question though: we have MNOG2 listed as the citation for that fact in her bio - did anything in mnog2 actually say that that was her, or are we just counting the fact that she's a rahi tender being mentioned in the game? either way, i think the citation can stay, but maybe we should also include the wayback links as a citation here as well.

on a little aside/tangent, those wayback links and some of the older "news" links on bzp are pure gold - and some have some decent insight on stuff that we take for granted nowadays. (it also shows me how many spoilers i avoided since i was never on bzp back in the day haha. there was so much info on there before it was officially released on bioncle.com and in the lego magazines. i would have loved to see all that as a kid hahaha). Intelligence4 (talk) 19:31, 26 April 2017 (CET)

Like I said, I am 100% on board with you on the idea that this random MNOLG Ga-Matoran was intended (whether from the start or as a retroactive decision) to be Kotu. The problem is that, again, it's technically speculation, and BS01 can be hair-splittingly strict about what constitutes as speculation (anyone who remembers my long debates with Dorek about Fikou-Nui and Spider Crab will know what I'm talking about). We need a specific source that outright says that Kotu was this Ga-Matoran, or else the wrath of Dorek will descend upon us all!

Don't worry, Dorek, I'm only kidding. Love you anyways, mate.

As far as MNOLG2 goes, I quickly did a few Ctrl+F searches in Mata Nui Online Game II Walkthrough/Chapter 1. The word "Tarakava" is never spoken by anyone. "Rahi" is said only once when Kotu says, "I usually help gather supplies, and take care of the tame Rahi." Nothing else said by Kotu or anyone else alludes to Kotu taming this one specific Tarakava. It's possible that there is a quote missing from BS01's walkthrough, but I'm not about to go combing through the game to find it.

I think what I'm going to do, for now at least, is change that MNOLG2 citation to a "citation needed", but keep the sentence in the article for now. That way, readers know to take it with a grain of salt, and perhaps someone might be able to provide definitive evidence that the random Ga-Matoran was Kotu after all. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2017 (CET)

I think that's probably the best idea for now. can we count the wayback links as anything? Intelligence4 (talk) 17:42, 3 May 2017 (CET)

Is it possible to ask Templar on the subject? Is that still a thing? ~ Wolk (talk) 11:29, 22 August 2017 (CET)