Talk:Gravity

Upper Limit

On my user page, I've been collecting quotes for quantifying the power levels of different beings, mask, etc. Just for headcanon and archival purposes, especially due to the highly contradictive nature of the subject. However, one of the few things that I don't believe has been contradicted is Nuhvok-Kal having the same amount of Gravity power as the Garai and, since Elemental masks give a Toa level control over the Elements, Toa of Gravity[1] (the only differences are due to the difference in willpower and experience, not actual power level[2][3][4]). The Gravity Shield used by Nuhvok-Kal can increase gravity up to 1,000 times according to the BEU. Can this upper limit be reasonably extended to the Garai and Toa of Gravity as well? Dag (talk) 03:59, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Unless the Bohrok-Kal are written im hyperbole. I think there's asimilar case with the temperature of Plasma from Pahrak-Kal? ~ Wolk (talk) 05:14, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't think they are. When Nuhvok-Kal and Toa of Gravity are not only capable of crushing objects with gravity, but also creating black holes (by losing control or a Nova Blast), it doesn't seem unreasonable. And for Pahrak-Kal heating up to 2,000 degrees, it's actually an understatement compared to real life plasma, which has a minimum temperature of 11,000 F/6,000 C/6,000 K. Definitely not hyperbole, but I suppose they could still be figures of speech and not meant to be taken literally. However, very rarely are specific quantifiable numbers used, and when they are, they're usually literal, from what I understand. Dag (talk) 05:51, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

How does Gravity work?

So, there's quite a few contradictions with how the powers of Toa of Gravity and the Garai work. First, we know with absolute certainty that the Garai, being an Elemental mask, grants it's user Toa level control over Gravity.[1][2][3][4][5] The only difference is that Elemental masks generally cannot absorb their respective elements,[6][7] but since Toa of Gravity can't either,[8][9][10][11][12] that's no issue here. This means that whatever a Toa of Gravity is capable of, the Garai is as well (minus a Nova Blast, of course). However, that's where the problems start.

According to the BEU and some Greg quotes, the Garai can only increase or decrease the gravity of a target, not the user.[13][14][15] While Greg has said Toa of Gravity can only increase or decrease Gravity as well,[16][17][18] he has made contradictive statements, like saying the Garai is capable of absorbing gravity to jump higher,[19] and both can completely change the direction of gravity to walk on walls.[20] He has also said both the Garai and Toa of Gravity can affect their own gravity to achieve a form of flight,[21][22] but cannot affect both a target and themselves at once.[23]

If I were to propose a solution, I would say that both the Garai and Toa of Gravity cannot absorb gravity from an area (which is already what the page says), only able to increase or decrease the gravity of a target, and not themselves. This wouldn't change anything about how the Garai operates, but would limit Toa of Gravity compared to what the page currently says they are capable of. Dag (talk) 22:32, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

New Examples

I found a new example of gravity being used. https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page132#post5248-line7,20 So they can compress matter, I wonder if a really skilled user can use it like Dante from Black Clover. Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 04:50, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I also found this from tales of the mask as used by Nuhvok-Kal.

The Kal didn't respond with words. Instead, it lifted it shield and sent waves of gravitic energy at the Toa of Fire. Rocks and trees, freed of the bonds of gravity, began to float into the air all around Tahu. Slowly, they drifted together until they were hovering just above the Toa's head.

I am not sure if this is being able to create spheres out of nearby matter but if it is, does it count as its own example similar to the compressed stone mentioned above? Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 04:56, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I have found two new examples of gravity manipulation. In Dwellers In Darkness chapter 9 Miserix fired a bolt of gravitic energy and Nuhvok-Kal has fired beams of gravitic energy in Bionicle synopsis 21. Also there are two examples I am not sure about. One is a depiction of Nuhvok-Kal overloading and it was mentioned there was a gravity field. The other example I am unsure of is in Prisoners of The Pit chapter 7 Hewkii used some precise gravity control to tie a eel into a knot. I hope some of these will be included in the gravity page as examples. Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 09:46, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

The gravatic energy beams could just be the way the ability manifests (i.e., a beam of energy that causes objects to become heavier, light, etc.). I'm interested in the BL example though. How do you think that could be phrased? "Using gravity to manipulate matter"? - Toa Jala ^Converse 19:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Even if that is how it could be manifested as beams and bolts it should be added since several energy based elements have that on their pages. As for the phrasing how about "gravitationally rearranging matter" since this way it is distinct from manipulating matter since that could refer to just making matter float or become heavier. Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 20:08, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

I have found a new example of an application of the element of gravity. https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page278#post11119 Should this be added since this can be called the opposite of compressing matter since it is ripping it apart? Makuta of Mata Nui (talk) 01:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

You can add it if you want to. I'd think of it as another form of matter manipulation via gravitational force, but that's just me. - Toa Jala ^Converse 18:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)