Talk:Hand of Artakha

Serving Mata Nui

How did the Hand of Artakha serve Mata Nui prior the awakening, considering they disbanded prior to it since the OoMN oversaw the training of the Toa Mata prior the Awakening? :/ ~ Wolk (talk) 16:21, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Nice catch! Hadn't thought about that. The Hand existed for "more than 200 years" according to the BEU. I don't have BL10 with me, but here are a couple ways to resolve that:

1) The Toa Mata may have actually been awakened by the Hand, before it became the Order, if BL10's flashbacks don't mention either organization by name. Heck, even if Helryx or Hydraxon does mention they are part of the Order, we could argue the switchover was gradual. :P

2) The GSR took >200 years to build. (Would that conflict with other info?)

3) The date in BEU is wrong. This the least convincing IMO, not just because it'd mean BEU is wrong, but because it doesn't resolve other things, like why the Hand disbanded in favor of Toa teams before there were any Toa teams around. (More on that below.)

Also, supporting 1), Bionicle: World never mentions the Hand. It claims the Great Beings helped pitch the idea of the OoMN. Of course, out of universe the story team hadn't come up with the Hand yet, but I did get the sense reading BW and the encyclopedia entries that the Order wasn't so much a new organization (as BS01 would currently lead us to believe) as a rebranding of the Hand. Also, we know the Hand lasted until after the first Toa teams were forming (BEU claims the Hand disbanded/reorganized in favor of Toa teams), and apparently the Toa Cordak formed after the Toa Mata went into stasis, so there's good reason to believe the Hand awakened the Toa Mata.

Once we get our theories hammered down, it'd be a good thing to ask Greg about. That said, he hasn't answered questions in months. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 16:59, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

FTR, this was already discussed pretty thoroughly on the timeline talk. It seems nothing was asked to Greg following this discussion. --maxim21 18:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

The Makuta's Guide clearly states that the Toa Mata were awakened by the OoMN.— Surel—Nuva _(Talk) 18:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

i think it's most likely that the robot took over 200 years to build. considering the size and complexity of the project, this isn't something that'd be whipped up in months. we also know there was at least some latency between the hand and the order, since axonn spent a good amount of time becoming a feared conqueror in the southern islands. Intelligence4 (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Brutaka

So, Greg said Brutaka was a member of the Hand of Artakha, in february, then he said Brutaka and Axonn never met while they both worked for the HoA, that's why they only met in the Order of Mata Nui,, then he said in september that Brutaka didn't work for the HoA. Should we go with the original answers, that he worked for HoA, then for the BoM, and then was recruited into the OoMN?--Surel (Talk) 07:35, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

The situation is the same for Botar : https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page189#post7524-line19,23

Since that's only OGD the closest answer to 2012 would be the one to go with; yes for Botar, no for Brutaka. --maxim21 07:55, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

In regards to further discussion on Botar - https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page235#post9398-line39-40 - 2007, 'I believe so' (which is already loose wording), https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/farshtey-feed/2008-12-19#item35 - 2008, 'no'... ~ Wolk (talk) 12:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Based on those quotes, esp the Farshtey Feed one, it seems like neither were members. Regardless, I think the right way forward is to leave them both off of the page because that doesn't imply they weren't members, just that we aren't sure. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 21:04, 10 January 2021 (UTC)