Talk:Shapeshifting

Greg says Mahiki users can't shapeshift, they only change the way others perceive them. I removed the Mahiki from the users list, but replacing the image in the infobox is challenging, because there's really no images of shapeshifting available. Maybe a picture of Krahka in her composit toa form? Cheesy Mac n Cheese (talk) 01:44, 6 June 2015 (CEST)

Actually, I was able to find this image of Baterra shapeshifting from trees to their default form:

Is this good? Cheesy Mac n Cheese (talk) 01:57, 6 June 2015 (CEST)

IMO, this picture is much better than the Mahiki one, no matter which way you slice it. Unless Dorek objects, there should be no issue. --Angel Bob (talk) 02:55, 6 June 2015 (CEST)

Actually according to both encyclopedias the Great Mahiki allows for actual shapeshifting-- it's the Noble Mahiki that only allows the user to cast illusions. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 03:56, 6 June 2015 (CEST)

Yeah, but that was always a stupid factoid anyway. :P Now, under Greg's retcon rule, that might mean that his latest answer is non-canon. The fact that he gave a rationale for the answer complicates matters; I'll leave that to the people who actually care. That matter, however, is unrelated to this page image -- the Baterra image is better in every regard. --Angel Bob (talk) 18:37, 6 June 2015 (CEST)

Personally, I go with Greg on it. It's the Mask of Illusion, and shapeshifting isn't an illusion, it's a physical change.Cheesy Mac n Cheese (talk) 21:22, 6 June 2015 (CEST)

(Every regard except that it has an evil text box!)

As for the Mahiki, I'd need to double-check the encyclopedia, but doesn't Matau actually call it shapeshifting in the movie? That'd be an obnoxious and rather lazy retcon ("the character was wrong at the time" only goes so far...). I never thought it made much sense back then necessarily, but that's the way it was written for the story. -- Dorek _Talk 16:37, 7 June 2015 (CEST)

So, if we accept what Greg said most recently, if, for example, Matau used the Great Mahiki to impersonate Krekka, he would look like Krekka, but still have the same abilities and "hitbox" (sorta like Gate Guardian), so to speak, as before he used his mask? If that's the case, I can see a character calling that shapeshifting, because even if "casting an illusion on yourself to look like something else" is more accurate than "shapeshifting", it's a mouthful for a character to say. Plus, if Matau is the only one calling it shapeshifting, there's an argument that can be made that it's just chutespeak. In this case, I don't think that retcon is too terrible. Now, if the narrator or encyclopedia specifically use the term "shapeshifting", it's a bit of a different issue, because you can't use a dialogue argument... Just my two cents. --Volitak Boxor (talk) 00:48, 8 June 2015 (CEST)

Well, you have a point about the whole "mass" thing; given the shapeshifting definition of how the Makuta do it, yeah, Matau's might not be considered "true" shapeshifting.

But honestly I feel like we're just splitting hairs here at this point. It's pointedly called shapeshifting by several sources, so rather than quibble about semantics, it should be easier to acknowledge that shapeshifting might mean different things depending on who's using it, as is the case for plenty of other powers. -- Dorek _Talk 01:17, 8 June 2015 (CEST)

Whenua also used the word "shapeshifting" after Matau attacked him diguised as a Vahki, but I don't think that little fact adds much to the debate. Cheesy Mac n Cheese (talk) 05:05, 13 June 2015 (CEST)