Talk:Timeline/Karda Nui
Ordering
With regards to my latest edit, I was making tentative changes, but in general, Federation of Fear throws a giant wrench in the entire timeline. The entire thing happens over about a week, but the corresponding events in the Ignition Trilogy (the Barraki being recaptured, paving the way for the first chapter--to the start of the Karda Nui dogfight) happens within a matter of hours, according to the books. I was trying to give FoF a little more breathing room by pushing it back a bit to Miserix's first appearance on Stelt, but even then it was only ever an imperfect solution given how screwy the timeline is.
Honestly, all three Ignition timelines have been very sloppily thought out and arranged, with each successively getting worse. I unfortunately don't have the time at the moment or ability to straighten it all out, but hopefully someone else with greater capacities than I can make heads or tails of it and add references. --Gonel (talk) 15:37, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- The whole thing is sloppy as it is. According to the BL8 and BL9 the Toa Nuva arrived moments after Matoro sacrificed himself for Mata Nui, and they were at the core of the universe for 2 days. In an OGD quote Greg said that the FoF starts at the same time when the Toa Mahri arrive on Metru Nui, and ends when the Destiny War serial starts.
- But in BL10, Brutaka sends Takanuva to Karda Nui, after the Toa Mahri arrived on Metru Nui. So either Brutaka sent Takanuva after the FoF, but before he was sent with Axonn to Zakaz, or Brutaka was sent to rescue Miserix after he sent Takanuva away. Either way, in Destiny War Chapter 1, Miserix is at Daxia, in a green dragon shape, so the serial order must be FoF then DW.--Surel-Nuva (Talk) 17:55, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- The only reasonable explanation for the whole thing is that FoF starts directly after Brutaka gave the Staff of Artakha to Botar and fought with Teridax.--Surel-Nuva (Talk) 17:58, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- I agree on serial ordering--it was by mistake that I'd accidentally placed it after the first chapter of DW. And I would agree about FoF starting right after Brutaka fights Teridax, except that Takadox and Carapar hadn't been apprehended by that point.
- I suppose one could argue that the "hours ago" thing in BL9 is an exaggeration and that there was more time between Matoro's sacrifice and the Toa Nuva arrival in Karda Nui than it seems, but either way it's going to be a tough sell. I don't suppose the DW content can be pushed back any further than it is right now? --Gonel (talk) 18:09, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Logically the whole Toa Nuva in Karda Nui should take place in a bigger time period to make everything work. Like the Barraki were captured after Matoro's death, and Takanuva was sent to his dimension-hopping journey after they arrive on Metru Nui. And the Dwellers In Darkness/Destiny War crossover says that the Mahri were pissed off by the Toa Hagah's sudden arrival, because Takanuva recently disappeared on them without any reason. It's like the serials and the books are on 2 different timelines. If we ignore the fact that the BL8 epilogue and the BL9 chapter 1(?) basically says that the Toa Nuva arrived moments after Matoro's sacrifice and that Greg said that the 3 2008 books took place in 2 days, the logical order should be: Matoro's death / Toa Nuva arrive in Karda Nui -> Recapture of the Barraki & FoF -> BL10 Brutaka scene -> Destiny War ch. 1-2 / DID ch. 1&2 -> DW ch. 3 & DID 3-4 /probably Takanuva dimensional hopping tour -> rest of DW & DID & Brothers in Arms / probably BL11 as a whole -> BL11 ending & DW ch. 9 as both depicts the Toa Nuva arrival on Metru Nui after Mata Nui's reawakening. But it contradicts with the fact that according to Greg, the BL9-BL10-BL11 happens during 2 days, but accoring to Hapka & the BC2 the whole Bohrok Invasion happened on 1 day too, so maybe we can ignore that for good. --Surel-Nuva (Talk) 21:58, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- And yes, if we talk about inconsistecies, the Staff of Artakha was used to repair the GSR, unbeknowst to the OoMN themselves. But if the Staff repaired the whole robot moments after the Toa Mahri brought Mata Nui back to life and returned Voya Nui to its resting place, it would mean that Hydraxon and the escaped prisoners should have been closed out of the universe, and the waterfall in Karda Nui should have ceased to exist, when Voya Nui sealed the hole.Surel-Nuva (Talk) 22:05, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
The issue of timescale is an issue that occurs in just about all of the Bionicle books tbh--acknowledgements of nights passing are rare when they occur at all--something Hapka started, but Greg did often as well. I've been tempted to read through the books again and see what the best places are to insert days and nights (though hopefully that won't be necessary). Of course, the few times that actual dates are acknowledged, they seem to contradict each other, as per the Skrall arrival in Bara Magna that I frequently cite. Either way, unless it's expressly stated in some guide or novel that the Karda Nui saga occurs over only two days, I see no reason not to throw the Greg quote out to determine how long it must have taken ourselves. With regards to this, I suppose we can assume that the Toa were just looking for the Keystones for about a week during FoF, with sporadic clashes with the Makuta as documented.
Also, regarding Hydraxon and the prisoners, it's been a while since I last binged the books, but I don't recall that being an issue. The waterfall (unless I'm mistaken) isn't referenced in Karda Nui again following Matoro's sacrifice, and in Reign of Shadows Ch.4 and the Journey's End Epilogue it talks about the Pit prisoners still being on Aqua Magna. --Gonel (talk) 22:41, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- I will look into it, but iirc only an OGDi quote said the 2 days, not any books so the problem could be solved.--Surel-Nuva (Talk) 06:17, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
I found the Greg quote q&a#2 which said that the Dark Mirror and the Federation of Fear both set a few days after Matoro's death. So Brutaka sent Takanuva to Karda Nui before he was sent to set Miserix free. Then the Destiny War starts when FoF ends, and the DW/DID serials ends where the Toa Nuva arrive in Metru Nui, destroy the Rahkshi with the T-vehicles, and Makuta takes over. Federation of Fear took weeks iirc, and Takanuva was sent pretty much at the same time when the Tahu/Gali/Onua begins their journey to the swamp, and he was at 2 dimension before he arrived home. I believe Dark Mirror time pretty much flows on the same way as the Main Universe, even if in Kingdom it is faster. So the Toa Nuva and the Makuta fight & the recovery of the keystones was much longer than 2 days.--Surel-Nuva (Talk) 09:09, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oh boy. Alright, that's good to know--though I think we can safely assume that FoF and DM are sooner than "a few days" after. I'm hoping to reread all the books over this winter, so hopefully I can spot the most likely places that took more time that it appears, but that's probably the best place to start. Chances are, contrary to the BL10 crosscutting, the entire Takanuva Archives sequence took place is just a few hours shortly after the Toa Nuva split in two teams.
- Federation of Fear takes about a week. The narrative only says that it was three days from Stelt to Spiriah's takeover and three from Spiriah's takeover to Zakaz--even if we were to say some of these overlapped and made about five days, the rest of the trip could have filled out a few more days. Although it realistically would have taken longer, the rest of the narrative doesn't allow for that. I think Takanuva's dimensional voyage could be seen as being concurrent to Federation of Fear, as well as the searches for the Keystones as in BL9 and BL10, all of which takes about a week.
- Dwellers in Darkness chapter 3 says that it took about half a day from the Toa Mahri/Toa Hagah clash to the Toa Hagah's trip beneath the Coliseum, and chapter 7 also says that the tunnel the Toa Hagah were following came to an end after "what felt like hours of travelling." In contrast, DID chapter 4 says that the Toa Mahri trip to Artidax took a few days. Also of note is that the climax of BIA occurs during some swamp fighting. Just going off of that, the events of BL11 coincide with all of DW/DID/BIA and takes place over a few days. Perhaps we could even allow for a day-long flight between their escape from Karda Nui and their arrival Metru Nui and the end of the Seige of Metru Nui, just to squeeze out some extra time for the serials.