Talk:Mata Nui Online Game II: The Final Chronicle

From BIONICLEsector01

Download Links

The "download links" on this page don't actually lead to a download for the game. Someone might want to find a new link. --Gresh113, Toa of Air (talk) 19:08, 25 December 2014 (CET)

The Komau Conversation

Since this year's 8/10 Bionicle Day event and specifically the interview conducted with Peter Mack, there has been a thrice occurring conversation within the BS01 Discord that each time has ended the same way: "We should probably have this discussion on the wiki." To that end, I'm going to do my best to summarize the conversation and the positions fairly, thoroughly, and concisely. I'll be copying arguments word-for-word at points because not only do I want to not misrepresent people and their arguments, but I'm a little lazy :P. I'll mainly be quoting Wyatt, Vahkiti, Kanguin, ToaSkello, Keplers, and myself though others have weighed in. Anyone in the BS01 server can view the original conversations at the following links: here, here, and here.

To summarize: MNOG II is full of glitches and typos, some of which break the game and others of which have flown under the radar until very recently. Since fans started cracking open the MNOG II code, we've realized that the Kanohi Kaukau was a default mask that only Hahli was programmed to wear; although Nuri and Kivi appear in the game with a Kaukau, the code actually calls for them to wear a "Kamau" instead of a "Komau". When Peter Mack was asked about this earlier this year, he checked the game's documentation and confirmed that only Hahli wore the Kaukau. "Kamau" seems to be a typo of "Komau," and in fact it's been spotted that some documents spotted in Christian Faber's office among various internal materials that outlined the assault on Ga-Koro in 2002--ones Templar may have referenced for use on their animations--do refer to the Komau as a Kamau. (Disclaimer: As far as I know, it's unknown what these documents actually are, but they do seem to be internal documents of some kind). At any rate, it seems clear that the Matoran featured in MNOG II (with the exception of Hahli) were each meant to wear a Komau instead of a Kaukau.

The questions then becomes how we interpret this (and the larger game) in relation to canon, and how should it be reflected on the wiki.

One position argues that the game as we received it in 2003 should be seen as the canonical version. The following arguments have been made by folks in this camp.

  • The text of the game is to be preserved, not the intention of the developers. If we were going with intention, bs01 would cover the rahkshi battle minigame as though it were in the game and say that the game ends with Hahli leading the Matoran to Kini-Nui.
  • (In response to the first bullet below): There is a difference between typos that appear briefly on accident and those that at no point are corrected. The Kaukau error is present throughout the entire work, as it were, and never appears corrected in the actual work
  • If we're going off intent, we have to replace the pics for dark hunters like firedracax and primal because lego posed them wrong for the book. We have photos of them built correctly, but those aren't in the infobox because that's not what was published. The trivia for Firedracax even acknowledges that the image in the infobox was flipped.
    • It's would be easy to flip the official image of Firedracax back, but it was never done because it was never published correctly
  • (In response to the fourth point below) The only character who was supposed to be dark gray but was colored light gray is kopeke, who we have a set for and sets take precedence, so no controversy there. Arktinen and Kokkan have a slightly different shade of light gray as the result of a bug, but it's still light gray.
  • (In response to the fifth point below) The Le-Matoran are slightly different because we don't have published material contradicting them, even if it is born of a mistake. But they themselves aren't necessarily canon.
  • Kapura's Pakari is a headache of intent vs text that we'll then have to sort through.

The other position says that we can view a canonical version of MNOG II as one that fixes any glitches with the code that was written, but does not add features or characters that weren’t originally coded by the team in 2003. The following arguments have been made by folks in this camp.

  • There is a difference between something that was done in error to something that doesn't exist at all. It would be like saying that Lewa should canonically be brown at the time of transformation because of that one panel in the last Bohrok comic where he was miscoloured. Or Turaga Vakama canonically stripped naked during the Rahkshi invasion of Ta-Koro because of that one shot where Creative Capers forgot to render his robes.
  • (In response to second bullet above): The typo is present through the entire work because of a single error. Talking about code is very different than talking about a colour mishap or a missed render. One small error can have widespread consequences such as this. An error in the original TLoMN code turned all Matoran grey.
  • (In response to third point above): The DH images being flipped is more of a note for building. Like you can't build an accurate design, if the images are flipped, because of the pieces's holes and bits and stuff. Which is unnoticable until you do, and then it bothers you.
    • Also, some of these were flipped back in the BEU. Those that were have been corrected on BS01.
  • If Silver Kopeke (the result of a typo that defaulted him to default gray) is not canon, and yet presents throughout the entire game, when the actual set is dark gray, then Kaukaus worn as the result of a typo should also not be canon. The Kaukaus were not assigned but were the game defaulting to prevent a crash, then that should factor in. The game has numerous typos in the code that break things. Several lines of dialogue on Matoran simply do not fire because of improperly spelled or placed code. Several events don't occur without patching, making part of it unplayable. Data has been lost over the years. Etc. So to me, bugs in the code should be ignored for their intended result when considering what's canon in the game.
  • If we're going to take Peter's word on what Orkahm and the other Le-Matoran, and Afa's entire existence, looked like, then we're going to need to take his word on the mask typos. Otherwise it's picking and choosing.
  • A good chunk of its MNOGII Matoran were rebuilt versions of characters that had already appeared in MNOG or the animations. There is one Ta-Matoran from the animations that matches Nuri's color-scheme and job (Ta-Koro Guard) completely, except that he wears a Komau instead of a Kaukau. Templar seems to have been linking this Matoran to Nuri, though this goes back to intention vs text.
  • There are plenty of outright errors in publication that have also been judiciously overlooked or corrected; the minimum is noting the error's presence but even that is usually done in the reverse way of the mask situation (i.e. adopting the correct media but recognizing that an error exists in the original). One goofy and hyperbolic example is that we don't capitalize ORDE, CHIARA, and ZARIA consistently even though their only published appearance very plainly shows this to be the case in both narration and dialogue
  • Much of BS01's relationship with the Greg forums is an exercise in trying to reconcile authorial intent with published media. Sometimes it isn't even the intent of the author that dictates canon--it's fans urging a canonization which, as in the case of Anonna's gender, the Element Lords' genders, or the number of Element Lords, has been recognized as more canon than what was originally published.

Judging from statements given or reaction emojis, most people favored the decision to favor author's intent here (of those who had/expressed an opinion). I myself prefer this, although it could leave outstanding questions about how to maintain consistency with the flipped DH pics and Kapura's Pakari.

If enough time goes by and either no one responds or the consensus here is similarly reflective of that on Discord, I'll edit the wiki accordingly. We can always revisit this conversation and change things back if need be though. --Gonel (talk) 03:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Going to move forward with this while I'm thinking about it. --Gonel (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

General Brokeness of the Game

I've tried playing this with the BioMedia Project version, which is the most fixed version if I'm not mistaken, but it still is largely unplayable, including the infamous Le-Koro softlock, the bugged Skill values, and just general bugs in the game. This is also how the final version and rerelease were (actually better because it adds in the lost Ga-Koro text files), but outside of stray mentions on a couple random pages, this is just not present on this site. Given the scores of NPCs and I believe a statement or response from the creators, we know that the speed stat is 100 times less beneficial than it should be, and due to a bug with the Takea minigame, you can only get like 20 levels or so before it becomes entirely impossible, which means the max speed you can get barely makes it possible for Hahli to win. We also don't list what any of the skills do. Does anyone know the answers to the skills question, and would myself or someone else be able to include info about bugs in the trivia and/or summary description? Firespitter Lhii (talk) 16:12, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome to add skills, and I'll forward some of these bugs to some of the folks who've done patches in the past. Considering just how many glitches there are (not to mention all the old ones that have been removed with time) I personally don't think it's necessary to list them. We don't have lists of glitches for games like MNOG or QftT, and the general consensus (per the above section) seems to be that the canonical version of MNOG II is one where the original glitches are repaired. --Gonel (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
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