BIONICLEsector01 talk:Articles for Creation

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Approved proposals (please make these pages!)

BIONICLE Facebook Page

Page will be made.

This wiki should probably have some way of referencing the happenings of the Bionicle Facebook page, which often releases images and videos that are either exclusive or are not released on another source until later and hosts events such as contests. Bionicle websites have articles so it should seem logical that the facebook page should as well. Even if a page is not made, there should be some way of referencing events that unfold on the facebook page as well as images, videos, and other content. This could mean a nav template or a category of some form. Post your thoughts.

Someone wanna get cracking on a sandbox for this? --Angel Bob (talk) 19:47, 31 October 2016 (CET)
Would someone make a sandbox? -- SurelNuva (Talk) 13:06, 14 February 2017 (CET)

Comments

I don’t think this page has even been made yet, but I don’t see why we don’t just make a whole ‘Social media’ page with all of the Bionicle social media accounts including YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc. all onto one page and just give them all their own section each. -- FirespitterVakama 08:22 AM, 23 September 2021 (EST)

Merchandise

Page will be made.

Regardless of exactly what we call it, I feel as though we need a single page for all the obscure merchandising items Bionicle had during it's run, such as the Toa Mahri Dart Shooter or the Sponge Morbuzakh or even the Soft Foam Takadox Mask and Twin Knives, which clearly aren't important enough to deserve pages of their own but could probably be compiled onto a single page. The only issue I can see with this is that some of these are very difficult to find reliable citations for that extend beyond photographs (Otherwise surely there would be some mention of the wearable glow-in-the-dark Piraka teeth on the wiki) --Snaptor (talk) 01:24, 25 September 2017 (CET)

Comments on Merchandise

I think this will be a good page to have - but i think we have to be very careful in drawing the line between regular sets and stuff and all the ancillary merchandise that was available. Intelligence4 (talk) 00:48, 28 September 2017 (CET)

I found a TTV topic that has a huge list of this sort of thing. It obviously wouldn't qualify as an actual source, but it could certainly help as a sort of "checklist" to see exactly what sort of things we're looking for. Are we allowed to link to TTV here? (Also, on a more amusing note, I'm not sure I've seen something gather eight votes this quickly in ages, I was expecting this to be controversial. =P) Snaptor (talk) 11:10, 28 September 2017 (CET)

I just realized this only technically counts as seven votes, oops. Snaptor (talk) 23:49, 28 September 2017 (CET)
MY VOTE COUNTS FOR EVERYTHING -- Dorek Talk External Image 03:39, 29 September 2017 (CET)


I've been interested in documenting Bionicle merchandise and saw that there were plans for a page to be made. However, it doesn't seem like much progress was made on it. I've drafted up a possible merchandise page in my sandbox.

https://biosector01.com/wiki/User:Endruv/sandbox

I define "Merchandise" as any officially liscensed Bionicle product that isn't a set or media (such as book, movie, game, or pretty much anything not already well documented here). I sorted my list by year and whatever partner company produced the product. It's not a perfect system, as I'm still trying to figure out how to address things like Legoland gift shop items, Shop@Home exclusives, and freebies that weren't widly available. Most of my findings have been through old BZPower articles. Currently, I made it through 2003.

If there is another way I should submit a page that's already been approved, please let me know.

Update: Moved to approved pages based on Surel's suggestion.

-- Endruv (talk) 17:11, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

I really appreciate the work you put into the topic, and since it was approved last time, I don't think we need a new poll for it. This could just go under the existing part on the top of the page, as a draft finally for the approved page. And in my opinion when you feel like it, you could make it into an actual page too! :) --Surel (Talk) 17:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
I meant it this way :D It's already approved, you can make the page if you want to, and then expand it later. :) --Surel (Talk) 22:52, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes sections

This is a suggestion I've seen brought up by a couple people but I haven't seen them bring it up on the Wiki, so figured I'd see it's popularity.

The suggestion is to add behind the scenes sections/subheadings to most pages, detailing real-life aspects, such as origiks and inspirations for the charactes (like we have for Annona) or locations (like Mata Nui) or how they were developed or altered from original plans, possibly detailing contridictions, retcons and/or uncertaonties, etc. There might be other things as well that could fit into the category. In most cases, I'm not sure there is much know to warrant these, so I'd perhaps keep them to pages where there is something to say. ~ Wolk (talk) 06:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Comments on Behind the Scenes sections

It's an interesting idea. I like to think Trivia encompasses a fair amount (and anything more detailed probably belongs on a more real-world oriented media page) but we could possibly redevelop what we consider "Trivia" as well. Could you maybe do a mock-up to show what it would look like? -- Dorek Talk External Image 06:15, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

While I'd also like to see a mock-up of what it would look like, I feel like a lot of the sort of information we'd be looking at would be far too niche to belong on any real-world oriented media pages that I'm aware of. BS01 already covers some things like this (such as "Real People" like Greg Farshtey) so I don't think it's outside the scope of the wiki. And Trivia should remain stuff that really is trivial and doesn't belong elsewhere. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 11:30, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Adding Contributors to more infoboxes

Changes will be made.


So, for movies we have a lot of things in the infoboxes - writers, starring VAs, distributers, etc. Similarily, for books we have writer and publisher, and for comics the illustrator. However, this department is lacking for Games (of all four types). We might not have all the information for every game, but we should add what we do have, and this of course should belong in the info-box.

Not expecting much pushback on this, but more-so looking for thoughts on what specifically to add/how to add it.

My basic thinking right now is:

- Developing Studio (Sapphire, TT, Upperdeck, Templar, etc.)

- Publishers/Distributers?

- Writers (Greg, in the case of The Legend Continues)

- Composers

~ Wolk (talk) 20:32, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Comments on adding contributors to game Infoboxes

No need to run this through the AfC process. Go for it! -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 03:49, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Went ahead and knocked out adding some of that material to the 2001-2003 video/online games, but Idk when I'll have time to do the others, so I'd appreciate it if someone else handled the games I haven't knocked out and the card/board games (especially since I'm far less familiar with those). Additionally, I've added an "Editor" option to the Book template, so it would be worthwhile adding Fiona Simpson to the G1 Scholastic novels and Jim Salicrup(?) to the Papercutz graphic novels.
Also, I'm not entirely sure how, but I think the amount of properties now in the Video game template has prevented some of the later ones from displaying. Not sure why that's not working, but if someone knows how to fix that, it would be awesome. --Gonel (talk) 16:10, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
Fixed! Template:Infobox was only set up to handle 10 property/value pairs before, but that limit's been upped to 15. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 17:59, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

New Conflict Pages

While I was consolidating our events pages, I realized that we don't have a page for either the Battle with the Kanohi Dragon or the final battle in the Toa-Dark Hunter War. This seems strange given how BS01 has pages for conflicts even so minor as the Battle at the Bone Hunter Camp, yet for something so significant as these two battles, there are no pages. For a direct comparison, we have a page for the Order of Mata Nui-Brotherhood of Makuta War as well as for the Siege of Metru Nui. Yet despite having a page for the T-DH War, these two major battles have nothing.

Reviewing the events list, the Civil Wars on Zakaz and Ancient's homeland also jump out as arguably significant enough events (especially in terms of the sorts of pages we already have) to warrant their own pages. There are plenty of others that, by the standing precedents, could logically warrant some action (or perhaps we could move to delete some of the minor battles...) but I'll just post these four for now. You can see the full list of event pages here. --Gonel (talk) 20:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Defeat of the Dark Hunters

See above --Gonel (talk) 20:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Make Defeat of the Dark Hunters

  1. --Gonel (talk) 20:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. Not a fan of the name, but this could use a page. --maxim21 06:44, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
  3. I think it's a good idea--certainly it was a highly significant event. --User:ToaOfGallifrey
  4. ~~Chalk33

Don't Make Defeat of the Dark Hunters

  1. This wasn't really an event distinct from the Toa-DH war - it wasn't even a battle, it was just a series of surprise reinforcements and a surrender. It's not insignificant by any means, but I don't feel like it's distinct enough from the war itself to belong anywhere other than that article. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 11:15, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
  2. I'm with Morris and Snow. - Toa Jala Converse 05:24, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  3. I agree that this is more-so a part of the Toa-DH war, as well. ~ Wolk (talk) 00:25, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Comments on Defeat of the Dark Hunters

I think a page for this could work, but also we could just expand the "Nidhiki's Betrayal" section on the Toa-DH War page. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 05:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

This is a compelling suggestion. I could go either way on this one. --Angel Bob (talk) 04:30, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
I can certainly change the name (though the current one is in the style of most BS01 event pages), but overall, I think this one is one I'd love to make a page, especially with all the back-and-forth going on leading up to this final battle and since two stories cover the various complexities of the events. There's also some fun aftermath worth covering, such as the fact that Nidhiki and the other DHs would later camp out in the very canyon where the Dark Hunters were defeated. --Gonel (talk) 19:50, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I think one point worth making about this nomination is that if you look at Category|Events (tried linking it, but it won't let me for some reason), BS01 has accumulated a listing of almost a hundred various events. Many of these are battles or wars, but just as many are more mundane listings such as Energy Storms or Study of Energized Protodermis or My LEGO Network BIONICLE Campaign, none of which were events especially notable in themselves and which were generally subsections of larger arcs. I actually expected this particular nomination to pass the fastest of these four considering it and the events surrounding it portrayed directly in two different stories, described in several more, and altered the course of history. If pages such as these three warrant pages, I think this event at least could afford one. --Gonel (talk) 03:54, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

This is fair, but I don't feel like the argument against this being a page has anything to do with how significant it is, but how distinct it is. Study of Energized Protodermis might not be the most memorable or dramatic event, but it is still notably separate from the Core War. Nidhiki's betrayal, conversely, is decidedly a strategic moment in the Toa-DH War and little else besides. It's important, but it's not a self-contained "event" in any way - just a part of a larger narrative. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 04:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Chronicles of Takua

The Chronicles of Takua are an in-universe compendium that is frequently referenced in BIONICLE's first half. Several narratives throughout the media include essays that are cited as having been directly pulled from it. These include;

  • The essay "Beware the Infected Kanohi" in the BIONICLE Collector's Sticker Book
  • The essay "The Origin of the Bohrok-Kal" in Comic 10: Powerless!
  • The narrative "Origin of the Rahaga" in the Appendix of Web of Shadows
  • The Wall of History articles, although not expressly stated as having been pulled from the "Chronicles of Takua" are still examples of his work

Ideally it would be fun to include these essays on the page, but if that's not possible it would at least be worthwhile to at least denote the collection.

For Chronicles of Takua

  1. --Gonel (talk) 03:20, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
  2. --Surel (Talk) 13:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
  3. - Toa Jala Converse 05:24, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  4. --maxim21 16:47, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
  5. -- FirespitterVakama 09:17 AM, 5 May 2021 (EST)

Against Chronicles of Takua

Comments on Chronicles of Takua

Hmm, I do like that they all have the same sort of narrative link, but given how far apart they all are I'm not sure if a single page would be well served. Given that we're mostly relying on WoH (the site) for the novels, and we have copies of the comics, maybe just an individual article/section for the Sticker book excerpt? -- Dorek Talk External Image 18:38, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Walt Disney Pictures TokenZone/Disney TokenZone

Bionicle: Mask of Light, the first film for Bionicle, was featured in a crossover virtual trading card game known as Disney TokenZone, a collaboration between Walt Disney Pictures and TokenZone. However, the section for Mask of Light was not paired up with any other movie that was part of the service, as each movie offered their own separate set of trading cards and mini games to go with them, so essentially, B:MoL has it’s own separate website for it when it was part of service, and didn’t include references or appearances of other characters from Disney outside of Bionicle, so I think it should be fine given how each movie had it’s own separate distinct section(s).

However, the game is lost, and there’s hardly any information at all about it online. Maskoflight.com had a section on the website to take you to it, so there’s that.

I don’t know what the mini games were like, but I feel like having it on Biosector01 could help document it in-case somebody does have more information in-regards to it, since it hasn’t really been touched upon.

What we do know is some of the characters that appeared were, as well as some of the locations. I think I might also be able to find the names and descriptions of some of the mini games. I think it’s canon in the sense that it just literally follows the same story as Mask of Light, given that the original movie itself is such.

I am really curious myself about the game and have been trying to find out more information about it. What do you all think? -- FirespitterVakama 02:03, 9 April 2021 (EST)

For Walt Disney Pictures TokenZone/Disney TokenZone

  1. -- FirespitterVakama 11:56 AM, 26 April 2021 (EST)

Against Walt Disney Pictures TokenZone/Disney TokenZone

  1. This sounds like something that could easily be made into a trivia point. - Toa Jala Converse 17:03, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
  2. I agree with the above, if only because we don't have the necessary info on it. If someone can someone more detailed evidence of exactly what was on this page, then maybe the point should be reconsidered, but as it stands we can't really say enough about it to make anything more than a trivia point. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 09:27, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Comments on Walt Disney Pictures TokenZone/Disney TokenZone

I'm not opposed, but partially because we don't have an overarching "websites" page, we just have individual pages for all the sites. If we were to consolidate a bit I would think it would get a section, but maybe not a whole page. -- Dorek Talk External Image 20:50, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

I’m thinking about probably putting it on the MaskofLight.com page as a section for it, but yeah, I think I might as well do that in the meantime, and then go from there and see what others think, as to whether or not they want to split it, or just keep it as it is under the movie’s website page. -- FirespitterVakama 09:46, 10 April 2021 (EST)

I want to reply here to Toa Jala’s comment. Anyways, I feel like it should be noted that the game should probably have more than just one sentence placed under a Trivia section, due to the website that hosted it featured several games, alongside the ability to trade your cards in your deck for others that were available across the other Disney TokenZone pages. It was also featured on MaskofLight.com, with a line of text that would redirect to the website. There’s more to the website than you’d probably imagine, at least a lot more interesting information that should be put on it’s own page rather than just a few sentences that wouldn’t cover everything. -- FirespitterVakama 01:32 PM, 6 May 2021 (EST)

Web Story

I think it might be worth making a page for official BIONICLE Podcasts. Between Into the Darkness, Destiny War, The Rising, and The Truth, this was a prominent storytelling medium for a while.

Thoughts?

Make Web Story

  1. --Gonel (talk) 23:21, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
  2. -- FirespitterVakama 09:19 AM, 5 May 2021 (EST)

Don't Make Web Story

Comments on Web Story

I feel like we should rather have a jointly page for blogs, story serials and podcasts. I'm not sure there's enough individual information for there to be seperate pages. ~ Wolk (talk) 12:47, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd be happy with that. --Gonel 14:58, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
Hmm, but what would such a page be named? Web Story? :/ ~ Wolk (talk) 00:22, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
Good question... I'll change this proposal to that for now, and we can continue mulling it over. --Gonel (talk) 20:39, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

CDs

Related to the above, the Media page currently links to our Template:CDsNav, but there's no page that briefly touches on each CD/CD-ROM in relation to each other, unlike the other media types linked on the page. Additionally, these conveyed significant information with respect to character bios and worldbuilding, and they carried the first half of the 2004 story along with the books and comics. --Gonel (talk) 15:49, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Make CDs

  1. --Gonel (talk) 15:49, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
  2. ~ Wolk (talk) 16:32, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
  3. --Surel (Talk) 17:19, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
  4. -- FirespitterVakama 08:03 AM, 24 May 2021 (EST)

Don't Make CDs

Comments on CDs

Mata Nui Stone

Although it doesn't have the storied past that the Makuta Stone necessarily does, the Mata Nui stones are common objects on Mata Nui, and present enough in literature and the Legend of Mata Nui, are often found in huts and villages, and dominate the path to Po-Koro. It's a major symbol in the 2001-2003 storyline, and more than deserving of its own page.

Votes for making Mata Nui Stone

  1. --Gonel (talk) 16:25, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  2. --Surel (Talk) 18:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  3. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 06:48, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
  4. -- FirespitterVakama 08:20 AM, 23 September 2021 (EST)

Votes against making Mata Nui Stone

Comments about Mata Nui Stones

I'd like to see a sandbox before I weigh in one way or the other. - Toa Jala Converse 14:44, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

"Meta" Tag

So with the addition of the Fan Community page, as well as previous discussions like the "Behind The Scenes" section above, I wonder if there's a way to classify it all under a specific tag so it doesn't hit against other ways of organizing (same reason I implemented the Sets tag). I think it could be useful, and we could maybe restructure trivia to go into some of these sections as well and then just link to the pages with a small blurb as we do for sets.

One of the things I wouldn't know to do is what to call it; "Meta" is descriptive enough, but it seems a little too broad at times, so I'm open to suggestions on that front. And if people think it's stupid, that's fine too! -- Dorek Talk 20:14, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

For "Meta" Tag

  1. -- Dorek Talk 20:14, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
  2. I think it would be interesting to have all the "Meta" trivia accessible from one place. - Toa Jala Converse 21:32, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
  3. It wouldn’t hurt, plus it would be good to organize them more separately from their other counterpart categories. -- FirespitterVakama (talk) 05:52 PM, 4 October 2021 (EST)

Against "Meta" Tag

  1. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 07:11, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Comments on "Meta" Tag

We can discuss what would actually go into it case by case; I feel like this might be a way to make the "contributors" pages seem less like bizarre outliers? And I can see fansites and such going under this as well. -- Dorek Talk 20:14, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm interested, but I'm not sure I fully understand what this would entail. Can you give an example of how it would be used? - Toa Jala Converse 18:21, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
Basically just a different domain for stuff that's a commentary on the series but not necessarily directly part of it. So like the Behind The Scenes stuff that was talked about above; this trivia that's not necessarily relevant to the character (as an example, whether or not a character is Greg's favorite...) can be divested to a new page that we can link to, same as we link to the sets page(s) because all the more relevant information can go there. So the story pages can focus on the story, I guess. -- Dorek Talk 04:17, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

I have two issues with this, and neither are with the core idea of making this information distinct, which I feel is important. But I think this would be better as an infobox rather than a tag, because in many cases I can see it only applying to a certain small section of an article rather than the entire page. This is the precedent I've seen for other wiki's that attack this issue, and the practical benefits of making it a tag (like getting a category page full of all examples) really don't seem as important to me as being able to signal just one part of a page as being out-of-universe. If it applies to the whole page we can just put the infobox at the top - this is very similar tohow we handle non-canon and semi-canon information, which is probably the best comparison for a meta category (which you could almost describe as "real-world canon", in a sense). I'm also not a fan of the name Meta, although I'll confess that I can't think of a better one offhand so I admit it doesn't do a lot of good to point that out. Maybe, again, "out-of-universe" or such like. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 07:18, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

That is something I considered! Aside from the visual aspect (I don't like the idea of sticking multiple infoboxes on pages, but if we perhaps find a way to make something like the Setbox, maybe) I just wanted to avoid the overall clutter. I know we've had Trivia as a page section for what feels like forever, but this could also be a good opportunity for people to reference that tenuously noteworthy stuff that I may have deleted in the past.
Likewise for the name, we had people get on board with "behind the scenes" before, so I'm not opposed to that being the terminology used on the page, but at least in terms of the tag itself, I'd like to keep it to one word if possible. -- Dorek Talk 17:08, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I thought that maybe we could use this concept also for fan-submitted canon (I guess that’s what you meant by Fan Community too), or at least for pages that contain content not created directly by LEGO, instead by fans, but was canized by story representatives (Greg obviously) for pages like Artakha or Kyry. Personally I’m fine with this, if that’s the case and if you want, I can make a white icon for the G1 Mask of Creation to go with the tag. -- FirespitterVakama (talk) 08:32 AM, 4 October 2021 (EST)

There is currently 112 pages with this category:
https://biosector01.com/wiki/Category:Fan-created_Canon
I think maybe it could work giving them a tag at the corner like the tags G1 and G2 and I could see the G1 Mask of Creation used as the icon however I’m not really sure what other name to give it. It needs to be something short like ‘Meta’ and nothing too long like ‘Fan-created canon’. I don’t really want it to say ‘Fanon’ for this tag, as with some pages, not every aspect of content of the pages have been made originally from the fans. Artakha for example, his appearance, hammer, and Mask were only made by the fans, and not his background. So not really sure if ‘Meta’ could work, but I guess maybe we could discuss this to see if anyone would like to come up with a different kind of compromise to solve how this kind of concept could work as a tag on the website. -- FirespitterVakama (talk) 08:56 AM, 4 October 2021 (EST)
Regarding this, I had a separate idea/plan for it that requires a lot more work, but I'd need to see if the two overlap. Basically I'd like to create different "reader" modes for the site, where the amount of information you see corresponds to your settings. -- Dorek Talk 17:08, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
I'd be more in favor of a tag that leads to a Meta page, filled with BTS trivia and whatnot. Maybe I'll play with the idea in the Sandbox. - Toa Jala Converse 21:51, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Distinguish between Elements as fundamental forces of the universe and Elemental Powers as ability to control said Elements

On The Great Archives, they distinguish between element and elemental powers apparently, with quotes to back it up. On the "element" page, the old 2007 quote in which Greg Farshtey describes elements as being natural forces of the universe/nature is cited as being the source for the bit of info that proves elements are something fundamental in the universe, not invented by the Great Beings, but something that were there always. Greg did this by explaining that many of the powers in the BIONICLE mythos are more akin to super powers according to him while he sees the Toa as avatars of the fundamental forces of the universe, due to them wielding the elements. Our elements page does indeed state that they are forces of nature, though it's not sourced and we don't state that they're fundamental forces either. And when I say "of the universe/nature" I mean the entire universe. Outer space. Outer universe (and inner). Everywhere. Not just the MU. Or outside of it. (We do have it down on our page that they exist both outside and inside the MU, of course, but that's not what I'm trying to set up here.)

Now, the page for "elemental power" states that they were (are) "special powers based on control of an element" and the "element" page likewise states that elemental powers are "based on forces of nature called elements."

This makes it sound like the elemental powers themselves are just a form of (super)power that the Great Beings invented for their Toa in order to make them able to use the fundamental forces that they knew existed and which they called "elements." And yes, I do realize I've just said the elemental powers are superpowers while Greg basically says they're not. But I'd argue he's more speaking of the elements themselves, not the power to use them. Though they are connected in ways, of course.

Here is the exact "fundamental forces of the universe" quote from Greg by the way:

"The only one that seems likely to me is electricity -- a lot of these are just too "micro" to be Toa elements. I see Toa as being avatars of the fundamental forces of the universe -- stasis field, elasticity, things like that, are not fundamental forces, they are more like super powers. Those are the sorts of things you would have masks for, but not elemental Toa powers."[1]

So what I am proposing is that we change the wording on this page to reflect the fact that the elements themselves are fundamental forces in the BIONICLE universe, and distinct from "elemental powers", which are instead the ability, given to someone (for instance by the Great Beings) to use said elements, to control them and such. It's actually interesting to note that gravity is seen as a fundamental force of universe in our real world too (along with electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force and the strong nuclear force), and is an element in BIONICLE G1, too. It should also be noted that Greg has stated that the Ignika can only transform things into something that is in their evolutionary background or pathway (both, that is), so that turning Metus into a snake is only possible because somewhere back in the evolutionary path of species on Spherus Magna, Agori either descended from snakes or share a common ancestor with them. Here is the source on this (though there are others like it on the Greg Quotes archives at The Great Archives:

"On whether the Ignika could transform Agori into something other than snakes: "If they have it somewhere in their evolutionary background, yes. It couldn't turn them into alien monsters that never existed on Spherus Magna, but it could advance them up or down the evolutionary scale." "[This] means that, just like humans, they have switches in their body chemistry that are shut off because they represent abilities they no longer need or never took advantage of. And the Ignika can flip those switches on."" [2]

He has also stated before that he interpreted the lines Mata Nui says about showing the Glatorian the (elemental) powers that they've always had inside of them in The Legend Reborn to be him saying that he sensed, through the Ignika, that somewhere along their evolutionary path they would evolve naturally and organically to be able to wield and use elemental powers, just like the Toa, and that he simply decided to skip a step here and give them elemental powers immediately by evolving (or mutating, as it is probably what really happens - well, evolution is done through mutations, and natural selection in our world at least) earlier. And the reason that he seems to act surprised at Ackar gaining fire powers and then realize "Oh, right, you're a fire person 'cause you're from the fire tribe" and the fact that he gave Gresh air powers could both be interpreted easily, or rather explained easily, as being the work of the Ignika itself. So, Mata Nui is not consciously deciding on the specific elements here, although maybe he could?, but rather letting the Ignika, which is known have limited sentience, do the work for him. It would, like Mata Nui, probably associate different kinds of colors with specific elements, based on what it knew of them in the MU. It probably has seen a few Toa of different elements in its "lifetime." Here is the source on this interpretation from Greg, by the way. Anyway, this also implies that elemental powers CAN exist as a natural thing and not only a thing you are given by others, like the Great Beings did.

Of course I do realize that The Great Archives does not use a source for elemental powers specifically not being the fundamental force elements themselves but rather an ability to control the fundamental force elements.

Here at the end I want to note that Greg kind of does refer to "Time" and "Life" as elements, but not "Toa elements". They cannot be controlled in the MU as they are apparently more conceptual than the Toa elements, according to The Great Archives at the "element" entry, which uses this source. It also states, like the source being cited, that they can be classified as "Legendary Elements." Furthermore, Greg has also described these two powers as being "fundamental forces of the universe" before, but whether he means just the MU here is unknown. Perhaps he doesn't see them as elements at all, in any capacity, just mythologically they may be viewed as being ones...? Source on that is here.

Anyway, who thinks my idea is good? Vote below if you want. I've also been rambling on and on enough by now. (The preceding unsigned comment was made by Lukas Exemplar)

Note: moved from Talk:Elements - Toa Jala Converse 21:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

For Distinguishing

  1. Lukas Exemplar, I am for it, because of the above-mentioned arguments. EDIT: It would also help explain what elements essentially are.

Against Distinguishing

  1. I don't really think it's necessary. - Toa Jala Converse 21:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
  2. I'm still not convinced that the Elements are fundamental forces. I do stand corrected on the status of Life, Creation, and Time as Legendary Elements, but I fail to see how the Elements are not just arbitrary cultural constructs like the classical elements are for us. Greg has confirmed that the Great Beings "could... have made" Sand an element in the MU "if they had wanted to."[1] I don't see any logical reason for them to exclude a single one - and only one - of the fundamental forces of the universe in their Man-Ship (especially one that is more culturally relevant to them than a few of the ones they did include) without some major logical leaps. Overall, I don't think the distinction needs to, or even should, be made. KDNX (talk) 14:24, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
  3. So when I search for "fire" which one comes up? While the technical argument could go either way, there's no reason to make this distinction for the use of a wiki page. It would be like having a page for the Hau and another for the shield - even if one is a mask and the other is a power, there's no reason for that information to be kept in separate places. --ToaOfSnow(talk) 04:07, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments on Distinguishing

To KDNX: We do not know if there are more elements or not, only that these are the ones clearly present on Spherus Magna and in the MU. In fact, TIme and Life are also considered elements, even if there are no known beigns able to control them - other than Toa Ignika of course, but that was a special case. Also, I'd argue the fundamental force - element - of sand is present in the MU, just not with any elemental power to control it with. Lukas Exemplar (talk) 18:12, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
My understanding is that the suggestion is not to make two different pages. It is just to explain the difference of Element (A force of nature) vs. Elemental Power (The ability to control an Element) on the main Elements page. Personally, I am not convinced these two terms are not used interchangeably in the story. ~ Wolk (talk) 06:53, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
It is Articles for Creation. It seems to me that Lukas is suggesting to create a new "Elemental Powers" page and rephrase Elements. KDNX (talk) 13:49, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
No, Wolk is correct. I wasn’t the one to put this on AFC by the way. Someone moved it from the Elements page’s Talk page.Lukas Exemplar (talk) 18:23, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
I once again found a piece of evidence for the elements being fundamental forces of the world or universe, or both. "Finally, they gave their newly created Element Lords weapons and armor that made them look like symbols of the natural forces of the world." Directly from the prologue of Journey's End. Lukas Exemplar (talk) 12:54, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
It's true, I moved it to AfC because I thought Lukas wanted it here. Somewhere along the line, I missed the fact that the proposal was for a rewording, so that's on me.
That said, Wolk summed up the issue well: in the story, the elements and their associated powers are used interchangeably. I just don't think that such a distinction is necessary. - Toa Jala Converse 05:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
Could you perhaps provide evidence that they are used interchangabely? To say "I have the the element of fire" and "I have the elemental power of fire" is not really interchangabably to me, by the way. Lukas Exemplar (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
In the context of BIONICLE, I would argue that those are interchangeable. If someone were to say that Tahu has fire powers, I would say it's the same as saying that he has power over fire. I'm really not sure how to provide evidence for something that's present throughout the whole story. Unless you want to specify that the sand found on the beaches of Mata Nui isn't the same as the ability to control sand, or for example, in BC4, when Pohatu says, "I may no longer command the rock, but I can still toss one," in which case I would still argue that it's just not significant enough to specify. The elements aren't exclusive the the BIONICLE universe, and most are self-explanatory.
In any case, if this was about rephrasing the articles, you can do that without asking permission. Maybe you can create an example in a sandbox to show us what you have in mind.- Toa Jala Converse 00:17, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Alright. However, I'd say that's not what I am saying. That is, that "elemental power" is not the same as "having power over the element." What I am saying is that the element itself, the thing that you control with the power, is not the power itself. Not that you don't control your own fire power, of course. My main thing is that Greg called them fundamental forces of the universe, and we aren't calling them that here. We're also simply treating them like any other superpower thing, when he made a distinction between those and the elements too, and they are an important thing in BIONICLE and that makes me feel like we do need to make that distinction too. Lukas Exemplar (talk) 04:23, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Create Weakening Chains

I propose a page like this one, Weakening Chains, currently on my sandbox, albeit with more of a full History section. They are the chains that were used to bind Miserix and fed on his power while imprisoned. There are a few properties we know of, such as them scaling physically with the being to accomodate the change in size, so that shapeahifters can't grow small enough tk slip out or grow in size to try and break them, and power-draining property. Although I do understand we don’t know much about these chains' history. It could also be a more genwral Weakening Metal article. Lukas Exemplar (talk) 18:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

For Creating Weakening Chains

Against Creating Weakening Chains

  1. Not a bad sandbox, but I can't really see this evolving beyond a stump page. - Toa Jala Converse 05:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments and Discussion on Weakening Chains

Poptropica Bionicle Glatorian Legends Advertisement

Ok, hear me out. Yes this is a strange one, but after forgetting about it after all these years and just now remembering it, I felt like maybe I should bring it up. Jeff Kinney’s Poptropica web game once had a sponsored segment for the 2009 Glatorian Legends line of sets, which included items you could get for a limited time, such as a Poptropican Mata Nui costume, as well as some Thornax launchers and a few other things. I felt like I might as well bring it up since the Neopets game is already on the site as it is and the Bionicle sponsor also had a minigame that teleported you to it from a display in the hub.

Here is somebody’s blog post about it (they also added their own idea for what else the game should’ve done with the sponsor) as well as a walkthrough:

For Poptropica Bionicle Glatorian Legends Advertisement

  1. -- FirespitterVakama (talk) 07:35 PM, 23 November 2021 (EST)

Against Poptropica Bionicle Glatorian Legends Advertisement

Comments on Poptropica Bionicle Glatorian Legends Advertisement

Turns out there was also one for Hero Factory with a minigame called ‘Assault on the City’, and it gave you a costume for Stormer and his ice blaster. -- FirespitterVakama (talk) 07:52 PM, 23 November 2021 (EST)

References

  1. "Official Greg Dialogue", page 207, post 8248. BZPower. (archived on The Great Archives)