User talk:Surel-nuva

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Archive
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19 July 2021

Goodbye?

Saw you left the Discord and obviously blanked your pages too. Hope everything's ok. Thank you for working so much to improve the site over the years! Good luck wherever life takes you. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 23:54, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, it was great to be the part of the wiki! There's been a lot on my mind lately, so I may need some time being inactive. I hope I can come back when all things get cleared up. :) --Surel (Talk) 04:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

👀 -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 00:14, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Seismic Pickaxe

"The Seismic Pickaxe could slice through almost anything and then weld it back together." Now that I think about it, I think I saw this info either on BIONICLE.com or BIONICLEStory.com. Is it on either of these archives? [1] [2] Unfortunately I can't check because of my outdated OS. :/ - Toa Jala ^Converse 17:30, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I've checked the Piraka profiles & the products page of the bionicle.com, the product description of the lego.com, the BEU & the Makuta's guide, but none of them have the info :/ --Surel (Talk) 00:51, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Darn. Just the same, I appreciate you checking. - Toa Jala ^Converse 03:46, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Ussal

Hi Surel! I'm kinda leaning against keeping "File:Set Ussal.jpg" just because it's a fan image from the early days of MOD. I know BS01 avoids fan photos, so my inclination is to delete it, as cute as the picture itself is. --Gonel (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with the intention, they've just been here for so long, I kind of get used to them, haha. Maybe we should ask a mod or Swert about them?--Surel (Talk) 16:27, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree removing it lines up with our usual ways, now that we have a replacement (though I disagree with the usual way). It's good seeing a consistent style in the set's gallery :) ~ Wolk (talk) 16:40, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I deleted the old set images now that we have better versions of them, but I've left the Mask of Destiny images for now since it seems like they might be worth discussing. Putting aside BS01's usual ways, how do you all feel about keeping or deleting the Mask of Destiny images? Would they be valuable to keep around? -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 07:15, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

On their own, I don't think they're compelling enough additions to keep. My inclination is to either link to them in a "See Also" or to add all the rest for a gallery. But then, that raises the question of whether other MOD pics should be added, or other fan pics. --Gonel (talk) 05:25, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I feel like it shouldn't be a question about MOD images at all, but about fan images of sets. Either we allow fan images of sets, or we don't. I think fan images should be fine to use in cases where they would add something of meaning, for instance showing a notable feature not shown in official images - or showing the set itself in a state that is not prototype or CGI. In the case of the Kewa and Ussal, I think that can apply, because the official images have rather unflattering angles. ~ Wolk (talk) 19:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Toa of Sonics/Triglax weapon

Hello. I have seen some updates to the tool used by Triglax and the sonics Toa he impersonated and while most of them are fair enough, I have to strongly disagree with the notion that the tool did not belong to the Toa. I think there is no question it had to be the sonics Toa's toa tool:

Following the order of events from the text, the three Toa are seemingly kidnapped from the village with only the fourth member remaining untouched. We however know that the fourth member was actually kidnapped too and replaced by Triglax. This would have been a perfect opportunity for him to steal the toa tool. It should be obvious that wielding a weapon belonging to the person you are trying to impersonate would make you more convincing.

It might be true that neither Norik and Varian would know what kind of tool the Toa wielded (why risk it though?), but there is a very important detail stated in the text - the village all of the Toa originated from was led by a Turaga and populated by Matoran, and all of them would absolutely know what tools their defenders used, yet they WERE indeed fooled by Triglax's disguise. Triglax had to look like their Toa and be armed like their Toa for his ruse to pass. It would have been a pretty big blunder on Triglax's part to not use the sonics Toa's toa tool and use his own instead - a blunder a covert specialist of DHs would never make. It was based on this successful deception that the Turaga even informed Norik and Varian in the first place. If Triglax showed up with a random weapon no one has ever seen before, he never would have fooled the Turaga who was already suspicious of the whole situation. The idea that the weapon was anything else than the sonics Toa's stolen tool really does not make any sense under scrutiny and requires much more assumption and out of character behavior to justify.

Therefore I think it would be best to list it as a toa tool for that unnamed Toa of sonics and not of Triglax. Regards--ToaKebaka (talk) 18:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi! I kind of think we put more thoughts into this already than the author, but to be honest, you're right. I'm still concerned to mention it, seeing we don't even know what the weapon could be.--Surel (Talk) 14:33, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Fire Greatswords and Lhikan reversion

Why were my edits reverted? Just because the shield "looks like" it is his Greatswords combined in the movie, the character designs of which are stylization and often based on different models and can diverge from canon. Also, you can say that it "seems" that they are, but if this was our standard, everything would be chaos. Bionicle reused assets, design elements, pieces, and concepts all over, including weapons which are literally identical in appearance to others, but which are not necessary related in any way. Ultimate Dume is the canonical form Teridax was in in Legends of Metru Nui, and so while the movie still is largely canon, the visuals are their own thing, seperate from the story. Even if it was identical, his swords could also have turned into a his Firestaff as well, or become some completely seperate thing that he abandoned or had confiscated. If you have a source to add, then you can do that, but this is how claims are handled. There are plently of claims on here that I think are completely wrong, but are within the realm of possibility or could have a lost source, so I will add the Citation Needed. Why not just leave the CN and look for something? Firespitter Lhii (talk) 19:24, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Somebody asked Greg a long time ago, that how could Turaga Lhikan still have the shield, if he lost it. Greg said he picked them up later, which is enough implication along with the visuals that it is the same weapon.

Also, when I used to have more time and weren't that tired of irl stuff, I didn't just check the recent changes and add stuff that I recently found and I think is missing atm, or revise stuff that sound obvious and forget to add the source to back the revision up. I actually used to clean up several things on this wiki myself, added several citations to the articles, I've made the first versions of the OnlineCitation and ComicCitation templates and helped expanding other citation template lists that we're using now, and also contributed to some edits that weren't done by myself, but I helped as I could as a back up source, so yes, I'm more than aware of how things go here... for 9 years.SurelNuva (Talk) 20:01, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Aside from the self-evident nature of the answer regarding Lhikan's shield, there are more reasons some other options mentioned are impossible. First off, his swords were never lost, Vakama had them, he is seen sulking next to them in Dume's first scene. They could not have transformed into Lhikan's firestaff because he had the staff when he first appeared in the prison, and could not have had access to his old Toa tools yet. The first time we see the shield is AFTER Lhikan is rescued, thus being free to retrieve them/get them from Vakama. Also, the swords could not have transfromed into some unseen object and then being confiscated because again, Lhikan did not have them - they were with Vakama.

On another note, I don't think the swords have undergone any transformation - the fact that the model is smaller than for Toa Lhikan is most likely just a filmmaker decision to not make them see comically huge next to his Turaga form. Because let's be real, how could have the swords transformed when they were separated from Lhikan? When ever we see a tool transforming with the user, they have to be physically holding it for the effect to spread to it. Lhikan's swords being tens of kilometers away could not have possibly react to Lhikan's transformation, based on the established rules of the universe. If transformation had taken place, they would have been something different entirely, not just slightly smaller.--ToaKebaka (talk) 21:21, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I think I am good with what we have now, I just wanted the citation. Though it is indirect and sort of a leading question in the citation, which has led to mistakes at times, I think this is pretty solid considering that he didn't just say he didn't know and that this was not some answer made a decade or more later, like some citations are.

I also never really meant to make this some statement about you. I am a new-ish user and wasn't here for any of the major events of this sight, having only joined in 2019 and having been a minor and pretty clueless contributer for at least a few of those years. I try to treat all edits from any user as completely the same, because I want to make this feel like a website and fanbase where people are welcome, while maintaining professionalism, which I believe you and all the other currently active members do as well. I also get a little over-reactionary when I see a notice that an edit was reverted, as I feel like it is saying my contribution was completely useless and though it's irrational, I can sometimes feel like it is an attack. I understand that we are editing some website of a long-retired toy/storyline which can require a ridiculous amount of research to be thourough, and that we are all just doing what we can(and that we may be a little crazy for doing this), and I have mad respect for all you who have been doing this for a long time and contributing far more than me(I don't even understand how it is possible, to be honest). I don't really care that much what happens, I just want to make this a better site and community, and all of us are in this somewhat-ridiculous effort together, a lot of whom have been doing this for far longer than I. I don't really hold anything against you, and I can see that my original post was way too emotional and aggressive for somebody undoing a few bytes on a page of a fan-wiki. Firespitter Lhii (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Everything's fine, I wasn't mean to be rude in the summary either. Recently I had very long days, and I know I'm slipping sometimes, and I feel like a bit too much recently, like not noticing things on show preview, even when I do check it several times, or realizing I forgot to add something else that I wanted, but didn't come up to my mind when I hit the save button. That's what happened while editing the Vahki set pages for the cards, which were in the front of me, haha. It's fine by me, if it's fine by you.--SurelNuva (Talk) 15:57, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Comic Images

Hi, I noticed that you reverted the edits I made changing the images for Onua (Generation 1) and Pohatu (Generation 1) due to a practice of using mainly comic images in infoboxes. However, I have some concerns about this practice.

The reason I changed the images is because I felt that the current comic images were poorly cropped and did not communicate the character's appearances very well. The comic images work fine in some cases, such as Dekar-Hydraxon and Krika, however in other cases, the comic images barely show any of the character, such as with the pages I edited. The purpose of infobox pictures is to show the reader what the subject of the page looks like (this is especially helpful with page previews), and several pages which utilize comic images fail to do that. I get that it helps to differentiate us from other wikis, but I do not think we should be sacrificing quality for uniqueness.

I hope that you will take these concerns into account, and thank you for helping to make the wiki better for everyone. TuragaHordika (talk) 05:31, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Regarding this topic, I'd rather use official CGI renders for each character personall,, but I believe this was discussed somewhere else before unfortunately. I agree with your reasoning fullheartedly, and I believe we should change them for the CG renders, but this isn't my personal preference, but you might be able to ask User:Swert about it?--SurelNuva (Talk) 05:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree with both of your views. I have always found the overuse of comic images for character boxes contraproductive in several cases. The worst offenders in my opinion are Vorox - where you only see a big ROOAARRR! which completely overtakes the picture and the page subject is little more than a background. Oohnorak page is also particularly bad, because only a very low detail half-spider is shown. I figured it was some kind of convention here, but in many cases it does more bad than good. But I also noticed this practice is not applied in few cases where it would have been superior... Trinuma uses a set photo, yet a perfectly good comic style image is available [[3]]. In any case, I agree that many pages would benefit greatly if the convention was not adhered to.--ToaKebaka (talk) 11:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I think Trinuma is an exception since it is not from an actual comic, but was a fan commission, so it's not really official.--SurelNuva (Talk) 12:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Correct. 810 commissions are fan art, nothing more. The idea with using comic depictions from my understanding is to show the characters in an environment, however I don't really agree woth that either. This has been discussed before on Talk:Main Page#Changing images in the infoboxes. ~ Wolk (talk) 18:33, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I know the current image policy has been standing for over a decade, but I was weighing whether to bring this up in AfD/AfC. So yes, I'd also like to voice my support for using CGI instead of comic images. Especially since the comic pictures are hardly consistent across BS01 (Defilak has set CGI, Teridax has a movie screenshot, Kane-Ra has a trading card, the G2 Toa have concept art and promotional CGI stills, etc.) and there are many more characters who appear in sets (and therefore have high-quality CGI art) and not comics than there are vice versa. And as far as the comic images themselves are concerned... for every Krika with fantastic art, there's a bunch of Bitil who are lacking any comic panels better than their set CGI. --PeabodySam (talk) 17:56, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah that sounds fair. One exception imo are the MNOG II Matoran. ~ Wolk (talk) 18:34, 15 April 2024 (UTC)