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If you could give some more canon or up-to-date examples besides Tale of the Toa, which is considered semi-canon, that would be great; they've been considered Tools for many years now, and even if they are "attached" in a certain way, like Pohatu's, it's hard to dismiss them as being "part of the body". For Gali in particular, the hooks are most decidedly tools; the quote at the top of the page, which is the most relevant and recent source for that, clearly identifies them as such. -- I AM THE DOREK do not truffle with me 06:15, 4 March 2014 (CET)
- Hi! i'm fairly new around here, but i've been on others wikis before. couple questions... 1. is there a page that lists all the rules on here? i noticed you said don't undo staff edits as one of them. 2. speaking of staff, who are the other staff members? is there a way i can ID them on sight? (like a bold or different colored username or something) 3. Is this site considered a fan-site or is it an official bionicle site?
- about the hooks...
- 1. one more quick question, are all of the books considered semi-canon? if so, why? they were written by people on the bionicle team, people whose word is taken as canon on other stuff (greg and cathy)
- 2. all of the others books as well, prior to their transformation into Nuva, referred to them as her "hooked arms."
- 3. also, her bio on the website referred to them as such.
- 4. i remember reading a comic that referred to them as such as well... not sure which one it was though, sorry :(
- 5. if they are listed as separate, then why are onua's claws not as well? we know those are his hands from the same sources as gali's.
- 6. bionicle.wikia.com also says they are part of her hands, last i checked.
- on pohatu's feet...
- why are they considered separate? i'm a very long time fan of bionicle (since the beginning), and i've never seen anything to indicate they aren't just part of his feet. also, as the template at the top of that page indicates, the name, "feet additions" is made up.
- As far as rules go, it's all there in the welcome template; upon doing some digging I can't actually find the "don't undo staff edits" rule, which either means it's been lost somewhere or it was always just a culture thing. We're not super picky about it these days, it's just a general "work it out respectfully" rule; if you have an issue, it'a always better to talk it out than get into an editing war (which is definitely against the rules). You can find the other staff members here but in terms of actually getting a response (or at least making sure the issue is noticed), Swert is your best bet, followed by me. Aside from memorizing the list, it's the people who have a colored name in the Recent Changes list. You can also ask Morris, who is more or less staff and seems to be around, but a lot of what he does is technical, so he's the best go-to for template and coding questions.
- BS01 technically is a "Fan-site", yes. We've had official funding before, but it's privately owned now. We're still the most accurate one around, though!
- Now, as for the actual story questions...
- 1-2. The first three BIONICLE Chronicles books are semi-canon because at the time they were written, they weren't strictly bound to the nitty-gritty canon details. This is why you see certain elements that aren't actually possible given what we later learn; my best example is always the "baby Gukko" Lewa finds at one point, when we know Rahi don't actually breed. The events themselves are considered canon because those were the points laid down by the story team, but since the actual writing was outsourced to Cathy Hapka, who is more less a "freelance" writer who pens for many different series, there are bits and pieces that don't fully mesh.
- 3. I don't remember that in particular, but as I mentioned, we always try to go with the most recent source, because that's the most up-to-date one. As the hooks feature in the encyclopedia as holdable tools, we consider them as such.
- 4. Well, we do have most of the comics hosted externally; if you want to find a specific one, you can always start on the Comics page!
- 5. I can only imagine that either A. a later source (such as the encyclopedias) explicitly identifies them as such, or B. Greg confirmed this somewhere. Unfortunately, as BZP has since lost their record of Greg questions and answers, we're out of luck on finding most of them; it was a big blow to my efforts to get citations up, which would have helped avoid issues like this. Since the page has reflected it this way for many years, I'm inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt, although it's certainly not ironclad, and open up for challenging. I'll definitely be checking my encyclopedias to see what they have to say.
- 6. The Bionicle Wikia has a history of not being as rigorous with their checking process as we were, so you'll see a few things there that aren't necessarily accurate. That isn't to say we aren't infallible either, but our standards of including information have always been much higher and less susceptible to personal opinion; we're big fans of hard facts.
- 7. As far as Pohatu's feet go, the use of "feet additions" was so long ago that it may have actually been before my time, but you're right, it is a bit of a conundrum; did we use the name and get clarification later, or was the name based on a previous clarification (probably from Greg)? I lean towards the latter, for reasons I've already mentioned, but like I said, I'll definitely be checking around to see if there's any contradictions in various sources. If you have any specific references or places to look as well, that'd be great.
Yeah, it does, thanks a lot! :) I'll see if I can find some stuff on those hooks too - I've always thought they were her hands, so I'm interested in getting to the bottom of this. Would anyone on here happen to know of a way to contact Greg? Intelligence4 (talk) 02:58, 5 March 2014 (CET)
- The easiest way to contact Greg is on the LEGO Message Boards. I've submitted a post asking about Gali and Pohatu's tools, but it hasn't been reviewed by the administrators yet so it's not visible; I'll get back when he responds. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 05:21, 5 March 2014 (CET)
- sorry for the late reply. wow, i guess my whole childhood has been a lie haha! could you possibly ask him what he thinks about the whole "hooked arms" thing? and why they made onua's claws part of his hands but not the hooks part of gali's? thank you, and sorry for bugging you guys about this! Intelligence4 (talk) 09:09, 8 March 2014 (CET)
- I don't want to bother him too too much, and I'm afraid he often doesn't provide any strong opinions on details not directly related to the plot.... Anyway, I imagine the claws are part of Onua's body because claws are by definition part of a hand/foot (in real life, they're just long nails) and as such they could still perform the functions of a normal hand. On the other hand (pun not intended), hooks are far worse at grasping objects, so it would put Gali at a disadvantage to have to use them and not normal hands. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 17:04, 8 March 2014 (CET)
Ah, I see where my comment was a little misleading. Flashbacks should definitely count as appearances, don't get me wrong, but what I was working on was the Eras at the top of the page. Someone had put down the 2006 era, on the basis that GBs appeared in a flashback in Inferno. However, the '06 era links to Saga Guides/Voya Nui, and the Inferno flashback did not actually occur in '06, but rather, Saga Guides/History of the Matoran Universe. So I wasn't talking about discounting flashbacks as appearances, but merely for the purposes of the Era tags. --Angel Bob (talk) 15:41, 12 April 2014 (CEST)
- Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. also, unrelated, but i read through some of your fan-fics on your userpage... i like the one where the makuta was messing with necromancy in ce-wahi. well written and creepy :) Intelligence4 (talk) 23:05, 12 April 2014 (CEST)
Please do not undo a staff member's edit without talking to them about it first. As far as this specific example goes, Toa armor has been referred to as a layer of armor that can be removed, repaired, and/or replaced, separate from the protodermis exoskeleton that all inhabitants of the MU have. If you have official word otherwise, please link me to it; otherwise, please keep that section on the Toa page there.
"Do hoto bugs even have heat powers, or is it more a result of their physiology?"
I found this question intriguing. It applies to some other powers, like sonic screams, too. Does a Kikinalo or a Klakk really have a power, or are their natural voices just that strong? I think in the case of BIONICLE, one's powers and one's physiology are one in the same. For example, I think that a Toa's power comes from its body. The Great Beings didn't just magically make a creature that could control elements, but gave them this power through some means of science. This is all speculation, but I do know this: a Toa's power can be drained from it after its death, so its power must be a part of its body. But that's just my viewpoint. In any case, I had fun thinking about it. :) -- Toa Jala Converse 06:00, 18 April 2016 (CET)
- glad i was able to make you think - thinking about this stuff is fun haha :)
- with regards to rahi, i think you're probably right, and that's an interesting point about the kikanalo too. with the toa though, i think that their elemental powers aren't tied to their body, but their toa power is: case in point, when makuta took over matoro's living-but-soul-less body, he couldn't use his elemental powers. (i think i read somewhere that if two iden users switched bodies, they wouldn't be able to switch powers or something like that). when was a dead toa's toa power drained? Intelligence4 (talk) 18:57, 18 April 2016 (CET)
- That's a good point regarding Toa. Greg said that a union of spirit and body is required in order for powers to work. You're right about a Toa's power, because when Lewa and Tren Krom switched bodies, Tren Krom was surprised to find that he didn't have Lewa's air powers, but he kept his psionic abilities because those are tied to his spirit/mind. Lewa, on the other hand, I believe had access to his air powers in Tren Krom's body. He also could fire disintegration beams because that ability belonged to TK's body, not his spirit.
- Additionally, when a Makuta takes over another body, it has access to its telepathy and elemental powers and Fragmentation and stuff like that, but it loses body-related powers such as Quick Healing and Chameleon.
- All this gets called into question with the dead Toa argument. As far as we know, a dead Toa's power was never drained, but we know it was possible, as Roodaka had planned to drain the Toa Hordika's powers after their deaths. maybe since the Toa is dead, there's no living mind left to hold the power, so it gets trapped in the body? -- Toa Jala Converse 03:01, 19 April 2016 (CET)
- EDIT: I know Makuta can use their elemental powers in a robot body, but I didn't know they couldn't use them in empty bodies. -- Toa Jala Converse 03:03, 19 April 2016 (CET)
- We know from Journey's End that a being's spirit gets tied to their mask when they've been wearing it for a while. So another possibility is that once a Toa has died, their spirit gets trapped in their mask, and then Roodaka or anyone can harvest the powers so long as there's still a mask left (and as long as they don't get teleported to the Red Star, but I think it was out of operation by the Metru Nui arc). Another possibility is that being able to harvest powers is a weird Hordika thing. The Toa Hordika couldn't use their elemental powers outside of their Rhotuka, so maybe the Hordika venom severed their spirit's connection to their powers somehow. Then Roodaka could kill the Hordika without worrying about losing access to the powers. Or who knows, maybe she was just ignorant and didn't know it wouldn't work. :P -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 06:18, 19 April 2016 (CET)
TJ, good point on the tren krom/lewa thing, i forgot about that. mtmnc, i think you're probably right about roodaka's plans being related to the metru being hordika. (or she had no clue, like you said haha.) we do know that she wanted them mutated before being dropped so she could see the effect of hordika venom on toa, so maybe she didn't know how she would get their powers. then again, we know the metru weren't the first hordika, so... maybe roodaka wasn't around for those mutations? or a plot hole... idk. Intelligence4 (talk) 21:18, 19 April 2016 (CET)
- @Morris: It all makes sense now! Yes, the Toa Hordika couldn't use their powers the way they could before, but if their powers are indeed tied to their masks, Roodaka could still have harvested them. After all, they still had their masks; they were just fused to their faces. So in theory, yeah, that could work! Thanks for contributing. :) -- Toa Jala Converse 03:48, 21 April 2016 (CET)
Here's another thought i had related to this: what kind of abilities can a faxon user copy? for example, a spider can climb walls, but that's not a power, just a result of their anatomy/physiology. we know of fader bulls, who have the ability to teleport, or shore turtles, who can fly (pretty sure a makuta was high when he gave flight powers to a turtle). Can a faxon copy the spider's abilities as well as the bull's? Intelligence4 (talk) 00:42, 7 September 2016 (CET)
From the Tool's page:
"The Lava Spear is Toa Hagah Norik's Toa Tool, which can be used to focus his Elemental Power of Fire. It can also function as a melee weapon. The spear itself has the ability to release a concentrated beam of lava. It can also remove all of the heat from an object instantly or superheat it to the point of melting"
- my bad...
- this is why i say we need to source stuff better haha Intelligence4 (talk) 21:23, 2 May 2016 (CET)
- thanks for the reminder, normally i do this, but apparently i sometimes forget haha :)
- on another totally separate note, aren't you nicophorus on tumblr, iirc? i'm just starting to read your reign of shadows untold stories - i remember your makuta hunt stories were really good, so i'm looking forward to some quality bionicle fan fiction! :) It's such a great idea for a fic too, i can't wait to get started lol
- remembering to sign haha Intelligence4 (talk) 07:12, 1 August 2016 (CET)
- So i'm finally (almost! - just saw ch6 is out) caught up on untold stories... man, this stuff is good. when i was reading chapter 5, it was raining outside and i was sitting by a window, and the visuals i had for kopaka going into that tunnel were unreal, it was so cool. (or i guess they were... real? haha) That scene is my favorite so far, and when reading your notes at the end of the chapter, I was thoroughly pleased to read that kopaka won't be going away anytime soon. Honestly, this stuff reads like canon. you have a gift for expanding on little canon details in the story that are almost forgettable, until you bring them back up (like the fact that the nuva all went to stelt after escaping from metru nui). the stuff with the citadel tribes was a little odd to me the first time i read it, but after a second pass (yes, i've read it twice haha) and a refresher that axonn was a conqueror before an OoMN agent, it totally fit right in. the part with the mahri and nektann might as well be canon, since it was your idea to canonize that bit of the story anyway - i certainly view it as such haha! the scene with macku and hewkii was also very well done. maybe the visuals you evoked when macku swam under the falls made me like the scene more than i would have, but so much "shipping" in fanfiction is really poorly written, or just plain fake, yet this scene felt pretty accurate - it avoided most of the "mushiness" (for lack of a better word) that is too present in most fanon, yet still felt genuine. and i've got to mention that ending scene again with kopaka, it was that good.
- yourself and whoever wrote [] (it looks like, from what comes up on google, that he's boltgsr on tumblr?) are two of the best bionicle fanficion writers out there, and i can't wait to read more. thanks for what you do, mate.
- on the site you published it on, you said updates weeklyish - is that usually weekends, or middle of the week?Intelligence4 (talk) 10:10, 16 August 2016 (CET)
- I just read ch6 - talk about character backstory! and cliffhangers! Intelligence4 (talk) 10:27, 16 August 2016 (CET)
Thank you kindly! G1 canon can be confusing, complicated, and sometimes contradictory, so writing stories that comply with all of its messiness is a challenge - but it's worth it when people like the story so much. I'm honored to be compared to BoltGSR; that means a lot to me. Re: update schedule, I have all the chapters written already, and I post them every 4-5 days. I'm glad you're enjoying it! --Angel Bob (talk) 17:24, 16 August 2016 (CET)
- Since you seem to be our resident fanon expert, i figured you'd be a good person to ask: i have a few ideas for a fic that's starting to seem like it'd make a nice story, do you know of a good place (online, don't want it stored on my local drive) where i could put a WIP of sorts? i.e. make a sandbox or something on my user page here or somewhere. also, is BZpower still a good place to publish it? thanks, and keep up the good work! Intelligence4 (talk) 21:24, 6 September 2016 (CET)
- I just finished reading the latest update of Untold Stories. I never thought of a toa of sonics being able to fix shadow toa, but i guess that would be possible, wouldn't it? That was interesting, I liked it! Also makes me wonder why that didn't happen in the real canon - like you said in the notes at the end of that chapter, i wasn't totally a fan of Greg's shadow toa stuff either. Question: Is Gali going to be making an appearance? she was only briefly mentioned in the actual reign of shadows, so i was wondering if she'd show up, like kopaka did, who also wasn't in the canon version. Intelligence4 (talk) 00:35, 7 September 2016 (CET)