BIONICLEsector01 talk:Articles for Deletion

From BIONICLEsector01
Jump to: navigation, search

Shortcut: AFD

Heat | 22:26, 3 March 2016 (CET)

I think this page is pretty pointless. By comparison, not everyone with Psionics has Telekinesis, and plenty of beings who have Telepathy have no other psionic powers, so those pages make some sense. Not all Air users have Vacuum, and vice-versa. Literally EVERYONE who has Fire has heat, and only a handful of beings have heat without fire; a small enough number to maybe fit under the trivia section or something. It's unnecessary and confusing. -- Great Jala Cthulhu fhtagn

EDIT: Better idea still - just list the heat users under Fire. We list Telekinesis users under Psionics, so why not? -- Toa Jala Converse 08:30, 11 May 2016 (CET)

Merge with Fire

  1. --777stairs (talk) 02:28, 10 April 2016 (CET)
  2. -- Intelligence4 (talk) 07:55, 14 April 2016 (CET)
  3. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow (talk) 18:18, 17 April 2016 (CET)
  4. -- Toa Jala Converse

Keep

  1. --External Image 17:49, 4 March 2016 (CET)
  2. Keep, because the Vacuum sub-power (Every air-user has this power) has page with less information than the Heat has. -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 16:52, 17 April 2016 (CET)
  3. Keiththelegokid
  4. Keep, because as stated before certain creatures have the power of Heat but can't control fire, such as the Hoto. Deleting or Merging the page would just be stupid because of this. Though Fire may have the Power of Heat, Heat on it's own does not have the Powers of Fire. -- AidanBionicle1
  5. Keep, as others have said, for the reason that some beings has been shown to have heat-based powers without being able to control the element of fire. --Luka1184 (talk) 03:27, 5 August 2016 (CET)
  6. --Vensai 09:29, 12 August 2016 (CET)

Comments

I don't see a reason for this to have a page all on its own - besides the lava eels, nobody has non-fire heat powers. I think the difference between heat and some of the psionics subpowers is that there are other objects, such as kanohi, that grant those powers on their own. Nothing besides the elemental power of fire allows someone to have heat powers. (besides heat vision, but that already has a page. ditto for the lava eels.) Intelligence4 (talk) 07:55, 14 April 2016 (CET)

Exactly! There are a handful of characters with heat powers, though. There are actually five characters/creatures who have non-fire heat powers. It'd be incredibly easy to make into a trivia section. Just add this:
*Beings such as Tyrant and Firedracax, as well as Rahi including Lava Eels, Hoto, and one of the First Rahi have heat-based powers. However, they cannot control fire.
That little bullet point just covered the entire Heat page. The only remaining issue is Krahka, who shapeshifted into a Lava Eel and used its heat power, but she's on the Fire page anyway, since she took Vakama's form as well. This page serves no purpose and makes Fire more complicated than it needs to be. -- Toa Jala Converse 06:56, 16 April 2016 (CET)
^Basically.
On another note, do hoto bugs even have heat powers, or is it more a result of their physiology? (like is it a "superpower" that they possess, or do their bodies just produce a lot of heat, similar to a (very) warm blooded animal in the real world? (don't answer that here, wrong place for that discussion...)) (The preceding unsigned comment was made by Intelligence4)
The difference between heat and vacuum is that we had a character who specifically had vacuum powers without having air powers, and we know it was indeed an actual "power". Intelligence4 (talk) 19:04, 18 April 2016 (CET)

On the other hand, not all beings with Air have Vacuum (for example: Rahkshi of Cyclone, Air Burnak). That's where I personally see a difference. -- Toa Jala Converse 02:50, 19 April 2016 (CET)

But the Hoto Bugs and the Lava Eels cannot control fire, but they have heat-based powers :) -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 19:14, 30 April 2016 (CET)
There are so few cases of them though, and we're not even sure that the hoto bugs have fire "powers" per se. With powers like vaccuum, there are enough storyline instances of it to warrant it having its own page, but with heat, we can just transfer all that information to the fire page and reduce some clutter. What are the rules for how long a discussion goes on before a final decision is made? Intelligence4 (talk) 07:17, 1 May 2016 (CET)
I don't think there is a time limit. If a motion gains a certain number of votes (I think the number is 8 now), or if it has little or no opposition, it gets passed. I'm pretty sure it'll just stay up for as long as it needs to. -- Toa Jala Converse 01:16, 5 May 2016 (CET)
Technically there is one, but I'm way too lazy to enforce it. If it takes forever I'll probably remove it, but it's fine to stay up for a while. -- Dorek Talk External Image 01:24, 5 May 2016 (CET)

Okay, game-changer: it occurred to me that Plasma users also have heat powers. You can see the full conversation here. I'd like some more input, and until this gets more opinions, I'm withdrawing my vote to delete Heat. -- Toa Jala Converse 07:20, 28 June 2016 (CET)

^Shot down.^ -- Toa Jala Converse 21:34, 12 July 2016 (CET)

Can I remove this? -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 19:01, 27 September 2016 (CET)

Template:SkullRaiderNav

I probably should have nominated this before merging it, but as you can see in Template:SkullCreaturesNav, the Skull Raiders and Skull Army can easily fit into the same navbox. I don't think we need separate templates. --Angel Bob (talk) 20:02, 14 August 2016 (CET)

Delete

  1. --Angel Bob (talk) 20:02, 14 August 2016 (CET)
  2. --777stairs (talk) 20:14, 14 August 2016 (CET)
  3. Because the pages have already been merged, we need to delete the Template:SkullRaiderNav. --Surel-Nuva (Talk) 20:43, 14 August 2016 (CET)

Keep

Comments

Earth Tribe

So I noticed that the Earth Tribe article and the Element Lord of Earth entry on the Element Lords page have apparently been deleted, but don't recall seeing anything on the page indicating that such a measure had been voted upon. Anyone know what prompted this?--Wiriamu (talk) 22:53, 19 August 2016 (CET)

Thwasn'tarth Tribe" was the placeholder name for the Iron Tribe -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 00:10, 20 August 2016 (CET)
Since it isn't canon anyway, I don't see a reason to keep it. --777stairs (talk) 23:46, 19 August 2016 (CET)
Yeah, I suppose that discussion went by pretty quickly, didn't it? I nominated Earth Tribe for deletion on the basis that it conflicts with previously established canon (namely, there being only seven tribes and six Element Lords), with the intent that we would vote on it. Dorek made the executive decision that this wasn't a discussion for typical AfD voting - to paraphrase his words, if it's not canon, it should be automatically deleted. So we had a discussion on Talk:Earth Tribe, and when we came to the conclusion that it wasn't canon, Dorek deleted the page (and Surel-Nuva and I purged all related information from other pages). Does that clear it up? --Angel Bob (talk) 01:01, 20 August 2016 (CET)
I was under the impression that their existence was revealed via Greg's Chat thing-are we no longer counting that as a source of canon material?--Wiriamu (talk) 05:50, 20 August 2016 (CET)
Not if there are preexisting canon sources that contradict it. In this case, there were; pretty much every 2009 source says, very rigidly, that there were only six Element Lords and seven (later six) tribes. --Angel Bob (talk) 06:14, 20 August 2016 (CET)
Yeah, I just went to the Iron Tribe page and found the link to a statement from Greg saying that the Earth thing was just a placeholder. I knew that it had been said that there were six Element Lords, but it wouldn't be the first time things have been retconned and I figured there could have been an alternative explanation for why the Earth Lord wasn't mentioned. Well, there goes that I suppose-I'm actually partway through writing a fic where I included the Element Lord of Earth and his tribe on the assumption that they were canon.--Wiriamu (talk) 06:35, 20 August 2016 (CET)
Well, no one's stopping you from continuing it! Frankly, the Earth Tribe was a cool idea, and I would be in favor of it if it didn't clash with canon o badly. --Angel Bob (talk) 06:40, 20 August 2016 (CET)
I appreciate that my friend-I believe you already know where said fiction can be found on BZPower.--Wiriamu (talk) 05:39, 17 September 2016 (CET)
But Greg says that the Earth tribe does indeed exist in the official canon? I asked him a couple days ago... Just because Earth Tribe was a place holder doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe we should take this to greg? --WOLKsite (talk) 15:07, 26 September 2016 (CET)
No, we absolutely should not, because it would be just time-wasting for we've got the answer posted by him a couple of years ago. Look: [1]. --Surel-Nuva (Talk) 15:44, 26 September 2016 (CET)
That was in 2009, and the retcon, as I recall it being, happened after 2009. The Earth Tribe would not have been mentioned on Bara Magna since the vast majority was on Bota Magna and would barely have been mentioned in the Core War since they were peaceful during the Core War. --WOLKsite (talk) 22:39, 26 September 2016 (CET)

The idea that they were peaceful during the war was an excuse made up by Greg to cover his tracks, because the man is incapable of admitting mistakes. --Angel Bob (talk) 02:51, 27 September 2016 (CET)

Doesn't make it non-canon. Both DC and Marvel have done the same thing. It's difficult from a writets perspective to explain why something wasn't mentioned in the past. G2 didn't even try, and I think that is worse. But anyways... --WOLKsite (talk) 08:36, 27 September 2016 (CET)
Have you forgotten that the G1 BIONICLE is over, so does the G2, but DC & Marvel are still running? A cancelled line doesn't need information without anything behind. The Earth Tribe had no real/official information, the others were just special kind of theory, from the fans. In the storyline, the Earth Tribe had no role, just to distract the original story (all sources says that there were 6 Element Lords, 7 tribes). -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 16:26, 27 September 2016 (CET)
So, looks like this has caught Gregs attention... https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/td-p/6605180/page/863 The posted the farthest down on the page. Just wanted to put this here... --WOLKsite (talk) 16:49, 28 September 2016 (CET)
We will consider the Earth Tribe canon after Greg revealed them with their dark story. -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 17:14, 28 September 2016 (CET)
Oh god, a "dark story" he's going to "reveal soon"... that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. He sounds uncomfortably like a certain someone who's been dominating the news. Still - as long as he doesn't introduce an Element Lord of Earth, it will be easier to reconcile with established canon, and I won't oppose it. --Angel Bob (talk) 20:16, 28 September 2016 (CET)
Were you the one who deleted the page, Surel-Nuva? If it was you, did you even read a single line of the page? You said there wasn't an official confirmation, but literally on the first line there was a reference that led to the post on page 329 of Chat With Greg Farshtey in wich he confirmed the Earth Tribe's existance. I don't want to sound rude, but deleting a page without even reading it is kind of a dumb idea.

BTW, for Angel Bob, GregF had already confirmed that the Earth Tribe had an EL in the post that I mentioned earlier.

I wasn't. Dorek was the one, who deleted the page, as it was mentioned earlier... and after the BIONICLE 5 was cancelled, the Earth Tribe was confirmed to be the placeholder name for Sahmad's Tribe which is the Iron Tribe. (Also, I cannot delete pages.) -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 21:53, 28 September 2016 (CET)
I know about the fifth movie, but I don't see how that changes anything. Greg said the Earth Tribe was canon after a fan's suggestion. Just because it was originally a scrapped idea doesn't mean that Greg can't decide to make it canon later as he did.
If Greg reveal their dark story (which could be different than what the fans got him to canonize earlier), the Earth Tribe will be in this wiki, but until then, everything is fine like this. (And there's a chance that their dark story is that they had never existed, they're only just a fictional tribe...) -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 15:02, 29 September 2016 (CET)

Greg has told us before as well that if there are previous facts contradicting a new answer/canonization, then people should go with what exists prior. In this case, aside from Earth being a placeholder, all of the lore says there are 7 tribes and 6 element lords, specifically. Adding in a new one really didn't make sense. -- Dorek Talk External Image 19:25, 29 September 2016 (CET)

Thank you! -- Surel-Nuva (Talk) 19:26, 29 September 2016 (CET)
But there's a difference between, for example, Greg saying that the Kakama that belonged to a Toa Mangai wasn't Naho's, then later saying it is, and adding an entire new tribe to the story. The first example is him not remembering a certain detail about a minor character, the other one is him consciously retconning a part of the story to add a new group of people. It wasn't an error. And you could make the argument that it was, but consider this post: https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/14239646/highlight/true#M308806 . Even though the question was on different topic, I think what he says applies to this one as well. Basically we would have (probably) still seen this new stuff had the serials been finished. What makes me think he may already have at least had the idea in mind before he had to stop writing the serials, is that, prior to the reveal back in 2014, he said that there were other tribes we hadn't seen in story in this post (question 8): https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/9939645/highlight/true#M234477 . And when he answered the question on whether the Earth Tribe was one of those tribes or not, the poster even mentioned the fiffh movie. And retcons have happened before, so I don't see how we shouldn't count tgat as canon. Plus, with this new "dark story" the only thing that was retconned, Journey's End's prologue, will probably be re-canonized.
Just to clarify - I am both the person who initially "canonized" the Earth Tribe and the one who pushed for its removal more recently. Frankly, I think the idea of the Earth Tribe existing by itself is all fine and dandy - there could be many reasons they weren't mentioned in the six/seven tribe lineup and not fought in the war, that's all fine. It was the idea that they had an Element Lord that clashed so horrifically with everything that had ever been said in previous canon. If Greg gives an origin that explains why the tribe wasn't mentioned, and either excludes an Element Lord of Earth or gives a really good explanation as to why they were never mentioned (maybe they died?), I'm down for including it. Otherwise, it just clashes too badly. --Angel Bob (talk) 07:06, 30 September 2016 (CET)